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Legal matters

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Original poster

Advice re Car Sale

23 replies

ImNotBossyBoots · 17/03/2010 21:01

My SIL sold her car on ebay over the weekend. The man who bought it came and collected it on Sunday and paid cash. He checked the car over- under the bonnet, under the car and a general look around.

The advert on ebay said Good Runner No problems, which is true as far as my SIL is concerned. They have upgraded to a newer car on finance.

The buyer has now been in touch saying that he was having trouble to get it into gear on Monday so took it to a garage and they have told him it needs a gearbox, shock absorbers and there is a leak from somewhere. The buyer bought the car for £1040 cash and is saying that repairs are priced at £650.

He wants the cash or is going to a solicitor. My SIL told him the car was fine with no issues that she was aware of when sold. He has now asked for her solicitors name so his solicitor can write to hers directly. She doesn't have one.

He has since been back in touch saying he wants £1000 back and he will deliver her car back to her.

She doesn't want it back as has new car and feels that she cannot have been expected to know about these problems and the car is sold as seen.

Does anyone know where she stands legally on this?

Sorry for long post, and thanks for reading x

OP posts:

lal123 · 17/03/2010 21:03

As far as I know its buyer beware - its his hard luck

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 17/03/2010 21:08

I'm a bit torn on this one - on the one hand, it's caveat emptor, on the other hand she misrepresented the condition of the car (unknowingly or otherwise).

thisisyesterday · 17/03/2010 21:10

totally buyer beware. car was sold as seen, he checked it over and paid the money.

i would tell her to stand her ground, she has done nothing wrong

Original poster

ImNotBossyBoots · 17/03/2010 21:10

thanks for the quick replies

whats caveat emptor????

OP posts:

geordieminx · 17/03/2010 21:12

Did he sign a reciept for the car along the lines of "sold as seen"

Not sure whether her listing "no problems" would have any impact on things...

Also be aware that she only has his word on the problems that the car has.

I sold a car on ebay a few years ago, the clutch was going, I was aware but the young lad bought it, took it to a garage that night, put it on rollers and ragged it until the clutch went.

He got back in touch, as a gesture of good will I gave him half the cost of repairs £200 - car sold for £4000

Tbh, Its his one stupid fault for buying a car on ebay - if he wanted a warentee etc then he should have gone to a garage.

IMO he is trying it on... I would tell him to poke it, he is chancing his luck, and he is probably fully aware that he hasnt got a leg to stand on - ant solicitor would tell him the same, and given that he only paid £1000 for the car, it is likely that if he does try to persue it via a solicitor there is a good chance that he could end up spending another £1000 on legal costs.

lal123 · 17/03/2010 21:14

buyer beware

Original poster

ImNotBossyBoots · 17/03/2010 21:20

He didn't sign a receipt no but did sign the new buyer part of the log book.

As far as my SIL was aware there were no problems with the car. It hadn't given them any cause for concern and that wasn't why they were getting rid, just wanted to upgrade.

I thought it would be a case of sold as seen as a private sale, even though those words weren't particularly said or written. He also actually 'won' the car via ebayer and as far as i knew that meant he was entering into a contract?

OP posts:

geordieminx · 17/03/2010 21:33

It should be ok.

Guy is just chancing it.

Like I said, you only have his word that the car has all of these problems.

I would advise SIL to tell him that he has bought the car, and that it is no longer her responsibilty, and that she wont enter into any further correspondance with him

Original poster

ImNotBossyBoots · 17/03/2010 21:39

Thanks for that, she's going out of her mind with worry, will pass on all the advice.

Please keep posting if anyone else has any further advice!

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 17/03/2010 21:42

"Caveat emptor" is Latin for buyer beware. But I'm afraid some of the advice above is wrong. Buyers in this situation do have some rights, albeit a lot less than if they bought from a dealer. Your SIL doesn't have to provide a warranty but the car must match the description. If it didn't he has a claim against your SIL. I'm afraid the fact she believed the description to be true doesn't matter. Saying "no problems" was a bit risky. However, he will have to prove that the car is faulty and that the faults existed when you sold it to him. Even then I'm not convinced a court would necessarily find in his favour.

At this stage I think your SIL should stand her ground. However, she may want to consult a solicitor - many will give half an hour for free.

Original poster

ImNotBossyBoots · 17/03/2010 21:46

Thanks PRH, I'll also pass that on to her. Do you/anyone know if there is anything specific she can use as this was an ebay transaction? Just thinking that when i have bought things off ebay, some items say 'no returns'.

Will have to check with her but if her listing said this, would this cover her slightly more?

OP posts:

geordieminx · 17/03/2010 21:52

Having sold a couple of cars privately I always get buyers to sign something along the lines of "sold as seen, no refunds/returns etc"

roystapops · 17/03/2010 22:42

buyer has NO legal comeback, he has inspected the car, TEST DRIVEN the car and paid a fair price to the seller. The e bay wording cannot be taken as misrepresentation. A good runner to one person is that persons opinion. If you think your children are angels, there are many that probably disagree. The law recognises this.
This bloke is trying it on for all its worth and would have trouble getting it to court.
CAVEAT EMPTOR - BUYER BEWARE.
Besides, in a court of law where there is no receipt or written contract - sold as seen is the default.

prh47bridge · 17/03/2010 23:43

Roystapops - I'm sorry but you need to check the law on used car sales. Take a look here for a good summary.

Sold as seen is most definitely NOT the default where there is no receipt or written contract. A used car sold by a private seller MUST match the description. So, if the advert says the car has air conditioning, it must be present and working. The fact that the buyer has seen and test driven the car does not provide any protection if the car does not match the description.

If the car is sold through an auction, including an online auction, that is the only legal obligation. However, if it is not sold through auction the car must be roadworthy and the seller must own the car. Again, the fact that the buyer has seen and test driven the car makes no difference. If the car is not roadworthy, they have a claim against the seller. Note that a car sold using a "Buy now" button on ebay is NOT sold by auction as far as the law is concerned.

I'm not worried about the words "good runner" which, as you say, is a matter of opinion. I am worried about the words "no problems". That is a matter of fact. Either the car has problems or it doesn't. It is just possible that this phrase could be held to be an untrue description.

geordieminx · 18/03/2010 08:33

Yes, it was the "no problems" that concerned me too - as you are effectively saying that there are no faults whatsoever on the car.

Best advice is to stand up to buyer - tell him that you will not be refunding, and want no further contact, otherwise you will be contacting thde police. One of the resons I get concerned about selling stuff like this is that they guy bknows where she lives.

Just out of interest did she sell for more ior less than she was expecting?

imboss3 · 18/03/2010 09:33

the buyer had a chance to check it out and test drove it, he was then happy to buy it. he has to try and prove the seller mislead him!

prh47bridge · 18/03/2010 10:30

imboss3 - If you check the link I posted above you will see that the description on ebay must be correct. It seems arguable that it wasn't so the buyer may have a claim against the seller. He doesn't have to prove that the seller misled him. He merely has to prove that the description on ebay was incorrect.

The fact that the seller believed the description was correct is no defence.

The fact that the buyer had a chance to check out the car and test drove it does not alter the position. You don't throw away your rights against the seller just because you've had a test drive.

Of course, the buyer wouldn't be able to make a case if the mis-description concerned something that was obvious when he saw the car, e.g. the description said the car was silver but it was actually midnight blue. That isn't the case here.

imboss3 · 18/03/2010 10:58

contact consumer direct they will say different! he has to prove the seller was lying that they thought it had no problems. very hard to do also car is 13yrs old with very high milage.

imboss3 · 18/03/2010 11:00

However, if the seller described the vehicle as in good condition, it will be more difficult to complain as the vehicle?s age, make and mileage, and the price you paid all have to be taken into account.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2010 12:27

It annoys me intensely when Consumer Direct get things wrong. But it's the government. What do you expect!

Their website talks about a private seller lying about the condition of the car, which assumes the private seller is telling a deliberate untruth. But that isn't what the law says.

The law states "there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description". That's it. It doesn't say the seller must believe the goods correspond with the description. The goods must correspond. They buyer may therefore have a claim against the seller even if the seller believed the description was correct.

You are right that it is hard for the buyer to prove that the seller was lying. The seller can just say "I didn't know that the aircon wasn't working". The law is designed to protect the consumer. That's why the buyer doesn't have to prove the seller was deliberately lying, just that they have made a statement that was incorrect.

imboss3 · 18/03/2010 12:45

also why would he get solicitors involved for a small claims court!!

Original poster

ImNotBossyBoots · 22/03/2010 13:12

sorry not been back to post sooner.

Thanks for all the replies.

Geordie - she got less than she wanted for the car, but not by a great deal.

The buyer had said he was going to bring the car back on Thurs or Fri evening and he wanted the cash from her but he hasn't been to her house and hasn't been in touch at all since. Hopefully he was just trying it on.

Thanks again for all your help!

OP posts:

geordieminx · 24/03/2010 09:08

Good news.

I ave been in a similar situation before, and find that there are folk who will try it on, in the hope they'll get away with it, but if you actually stand your ground they usually back off.

I sold some speakers on ebay last year. Got a good price for them, more than expected. Auction finished, guy emailed to say that it was his brother that had used his account to bid, and that he had some questions. He was told he could ask questions, but as the auction had ended, and he was the winning bidder he was obliged to pay.

He paid, we packaged them up, took pictures of them packed and send them off. 2 days later got a very agressive email from bloke saying that the speakers were broken, looked like they had been kicked, and that it obviously hadnt been done by the post office, and that we must have done it. We asked for pictures, which he sent - he had utterly trashed them - no way had it been done in transit. He was told to take a hike, and that he was at it, to which he said he was a police officer and his brother was a lawyer and they would make us pay... we said fine...but they werent getting refunded. Strangely enough we didnt here from them again.

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