Employment Tribunal

[beautyful]

I was sacked for alleged gross misconduct two weeks after I informed my superiors I was pregnant. The dismissal was without any warning and I was told on a Thursday pm just to be in a meeting Monday and out the Wednesday. I was then pregnant with twins 4.5 months. No notice was taken to my responses to their allegations and it was clear they just wanted me out. Having relocated just 3 months prior (having bought the property)my family and myself being without a network of friends or family as support. When being put in these situations what you need is a fast and efficient system to get clarity and justice. However that is not necessarily the case. Taking on an employment matter is entirely your own costs, and with twins and a building site there was little else I could do but to employ lawyers to help me. Two days were scheduled in court a year after the actual incident. The build-up was tremendous and full of anxiety and emotional upsets, specifially taken the twins required a lot of my attention (with no network of support from friends and family in a new town). The two days took the case to being part-heard. This means they have scheduled another 4 days in another 7 months time. Not only does this keep us in a waiting room emotionally, but also the costs for legal aid has crept up to such levels that it is impossible as individuals to cover. Is there anybody out there who has been in a similar situation and who has some advice for us. Is there any aid somewhere in regards to legal aid? We cannot get anyting from government sources as we are the owners of the property. However selling it would stand us to lose at least 50K, in addition to the already paid stamp duty and legal fees when we moved here. Any advice would be very much appreciated, or some inspiration to keep us going forward.

Any chance that you can continue on your own?

I havelimited experience - I could not get any legal advice at all as I could not afford to pay and couldn't get anything for free. I kept going through the initial hearing and preparing all the mounds of paperwork and before we got to Court my employer settled because it was costing them sooo much money that it was not worth it.

I completely sympathise with you - it is a horrendous experience and totally sacked against the individual I think because it is so hard to represent yourself.

If you really can't continue to pay for legal help then I would consider going ahead on your own - you have come so far, so what have you got to lose .... except time, your sanity, slepless nights etc etc!

Any chance that you can continue on your own?

I havelimited experience - I could not get any legal advice at all as I could not afford to pay and couldn't get anything for free. I kept going through the initial hearing and preparing all the mounds of paperwork and before we got to Court my employer settled because it was costing them sooo much money that it was not worth it.

I completely sympathise with you - it is a horrendous experience and totally stacked against the individual I think because it is so hard to represent yourself.

If you really can't continue to pay for legal help then I would consider going ahead on your own - you have come so far, so what have you got to lose .... except time, your sanity, slepless nights etc etc!

I'm afraid there isn't any form of legal aid for employment tribunals. Even if you had no money at all you wouldn't get legal aid. Furthermore, you won't be able to recover your legal costs from your ex-employer if you win. The idea is that you don't need a lawyer to represent you - indeed, you are encouraged to represent yourself. That is why the proceedings are relatively informal. If you represent yourself, the chairman of the tribunal will try to make things clear for you and will often ask questions that you've missed. You shouldn't lose out by representing yourself and you may even end up better off. I would strongly recommend doing so

Check you buildings insurance policy. Mine covers Personal injury and employment claims.

Thank you so much for the tips. The insurance thing - I certainly have it in my clause now! Unfortunately not at the time when all this happened. As it can't be back dated - I am stuck without. I certainly will continue until the end - but not so sure how to go forward. I totally agree about the sleepless nights and it is not fair for the children.
I will look at representing myself, while having started with a barrister and seen the cross examination I would not feel comfortable doing that myself.
I saw in media in the most recent days how they are trying to potentially change the way rape victims are treated. I feel strongly I would like to lobby the process to the government re employment tribunals and at least have them understand this is NOT a fair system. If there are more people who have been in a situation or have opinions I would so much appreciate to hear. When having kids the first year is certainly not a great time to be dealing with legal.
Everyday is Beautyful!

A tribunal will not expect you to be as good at cross examination as a barrister. They will generally ask questions for you if there is anything you've missed.

I'm not really clear why you think the process is unfair. One of the major points in the system is to keep it cheap by avoiding lawyers. That's why you won't have to pay your ex-employers costs if they win. You certainly aren't disadvantaged if you don't have a lawyer and it can work in your favour.

Of cases that actually got as far as a hearing in the last year for which statistics are available, 56% of claimants won. That doesn't sound to me like it is hugely weighted in favour of the employer.

Can I just add that IME the Chairman was incredibly sympathetic towards me in the sense that it was clear that I had no idea what was going on and that my ex-employer was trying to intimidate me with their high profile legal team.

The Chairman interrupted them on several occasions to explain things to me and to make sure I was keeping up. He asked them things which had not occurred to me. He also went through my papers during the hearing and double checked that I had got everything down how I meant it -it turned out that I had made a pretty mahoosive mistake and when I started to apologise he cut me off and said there was nothing to apologise for etc etc. If he hadn't done that my entire case would have fallen apart to nothing, and my ex-employer knew that of course. You should have seen their faces!

I didn't try and pretend that I knew what I was doing and they didn't expect me to be a legal whizz.

If you go ahead, and I really hope you do, I would suggest that you note the fine line between being as prepared and confident as possible, while on the other hand making it clear that you are out of your depth and need a bit of hand-holding IYKWIM.

The year of build up to the tribunal the lawyers kept contacting me and in one week alone I had 4 personal calls, 4 letters, a courier picking up documents and requests to come back on certain items. In addition they created 2 ring binders full of e-mails and correspondence to go through. As a new mum of twins and also having relocated into a building site for the business I must say that the stresses and anxiety had me appoint lawyers. I could not handle it. I was even told off for missing a submission deadline when I was in hospital over 2 nights with my son - then only 2 months old. I think what is unfair is that somebody in my position has to wait for more than a year to have the case heard. In the meantime this can cause exceedingly high pressure on the individual - let alone financial burden having lost their job. If the hearing would be immediate I think it is fine. I also believe the self representation is great, however my barrister took 2 days of cross examination of 1 witness. The case is now adjourned until October, another 7 months. I certainly would not have felt skilled to have asked many of the questions posed. In addition Times reported on the case although it was part heard, solely giving the employers view - leaving me again as the punch bag although there is no outcome as of yet. This is why I feel the system is unfair.

It sounds as though your employers behaved appallingly (although there are always 2 sides to a story). If your evidence backs you up, and if you can cope with the undoubted stress and if you have a realistic view of what financial settlement you might get and believe the fight is worth it, you should press on.

I speak as an in house lawyer with some experience of employment matters. I have found that ETs are biased towards the claimant (good news for you!) However I would never advise anyone to go down the ET route without fully considering how stressful and drawn out it usually is.

Good luck.

It is almost as if your ex employer's lawyers are trying to put so much pressure on you that you withdraw the case. If they are, that suggests they know they have a weak case.

Cross examining one witness for 2 days sounds a bit excessive for an employment tribunal. Was it really worth it or could he have got the useful information in a shorter time? Remember, if you are representing yourself the tribunal will ask a lot more questions than if you have a lawyer representing you.

The delays are, of course, awful. The process was supposed to be quick and informal. However, the increasing levels of compensation awarded have led to more employers and claimants using lawyers which in turn leads to the whole thing becoming more formal.

Your case sounds high profile if it was reported in the Times!

Good luck.

are you Swedish?

I was got rid of when I was 6m pg, but i just couldn't afford to lose any case, so just rattled my sabre at the ex employers and they paid out.

as it was, they did the exact same thing to my colleague a year or so later, claiming they never knew she was disabled.... we all knew she had a blue badge, we all knew of her accident and the struggle she went through just to live, the way she held up to it all was amazing. She got to the night before the tribunal and they made her an offer.

I should have held my nerve, but i was PG with my only son, was having to sell my house to rid myself of mortgage etc and pay the bills.. I just knew that they were going to fight dirty.

Looks like your's are erring toward that too.

Beautyful, I think you ought to be able to muster the where with all to be able to hold yourself together in court. If you are sure of your case, then go for it.

Go for it girl, give em hell, we are all behind you!!