Urgent advice needed - I have been a bit bad....

[tartyhighheels]

ok so we have had parking crackdown at our school which involved 8 (yes 8) police, comm support officers and traffic wardens standing about and moving everyone on

On the first day i reverse into space and forget tow bar is on and knock car behind number plate - no damage but cue. gross over reaction by pc and cso - take all my details check everything try and tell me they can do me for driving without due care and attention - bear in mind no damage and owner of car really cool about it... this goes on and on and ends up in them not being able to do anything at all as all legal - i was ascerbic to say the least because this charade took about 45 mins and all my children were there etc.

Next morning though am folk hero with mummies.... my victory however is short-lived

because, the next day after school pick up

cars parked and mummy in front of me putting her dc in car and securing him in car seat, i pull in behind her and wait for her to leave the space. wpc runs (yes actually sprints accross the road) and tells me to move on immediately. I say i am waiting for space, she says move on right now or i will give you a ticket for double parking! i say again i am just waiting and she gets her magic book out so i drive off (past the children we are trying to protect twice unnecessarily - in my mind putting them at more risk than just staying put) - i go off and then turn to the very space i was waiting for - wpc points at my car as i do something and writes in magic notebook - pick up children and then drive off and as i do wpc in question gives me a sarky smile and wave (even the 8 year old dd remarked how sarky) so i go to give her the finger and shit out at the last minute and think better of it...

Next day - i am charged with section 5 public order offence!!!!!!!!!! she says i gave her the 'wanker sign' (not my style) - actually i didn't but i said nothing rather than make it any worse.

so... am i going to get a criminal record? could she have given me a fixed penalty thus avoiding criminal record? do you think i was harrassed? and actually as i said i didn't really do the thing i was accused of but rather was going to give her the finger (thank god i didnt eh?)

Amazingly due to the grave seriousness of this crime it has been brought to magistrates court with a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!! amazing

i am terrified but completely outraged - i know i pissed them off by not commiting and offence the day before but this is so so over the top.

any advice anyone????? crapping myself..

and does what i said constitute double parking?? surely i have to park????

You could have been given a FPN for the driving offence (ie double parking or waiting in a restricted area - a lot of schools have hatchings near them that indicate no parking)
Clearly the amount of police officers you say have been at the school indicates that this has been a real problem hence them turning out in force.

From what you say, it seems you haven't been given a FPN but are charged with the public order offence which is unrelated to the parking/driving incident. I know of someone else who several years ago was charged with this offence for being verbally abusive and making a rude gesture to a police officer following a very minor driving incident.

You say you were going to say something/make a gesture but did not. Did you however make any comments that could have been heard (or even lipread) by the police officer? Unless the case is dropped it will go to Court so you may be sensible to seek legal advice from a criminal solicitor regarding this. If you have no previous convictions then you may get away with it.
I do however have to add that from reading your post it comes across that you don't seem to have much regard for police authority and the safety of the children that they are trying to enforce which is a little sad.

I thought if you were still in the car with the engine running you were not parked technically, but 'waiting'? I've got away with saying to a warden I was unloading beforer - which I was - 5 kids!

Ironically, i am not one of the parking offenders at the school - there are several that doudble park and even block drives and disabled spaces - the space i was waiting for was in an authorised bay for parking and no hatchings or anything.

Again i wasnt verbally abusive to her i didnt swear or mouth anything - this is about an alledged hand sign - honest i didn't do it - i have nothing whatsoever to lose by telling the truth

And i just read something to say that you could be given a fixed penalty for a public order offence - a section 5 certainly - i just think this is really heavy handed. I am sure i have absolutely no chance of defending myself in court against the police anyway - i am not imagining that anyone is going to believe me and i do feel that they will say what they have to say to convict me or they look daft for bringing it in the first place... no, not a lot of faith in the police in general but fortunately no previous convictions apart from a fixed penalty for speeding...

I'd be in your shoes (not necessarily tarty high heels!), not able to contain my anger at petty victimisation, whilst real crimes are being committed all around.

If you can say you did not make the sign of which you're being accused, then say it. Furthermore, relate it to the previous incident and perhaps get witness statements from the other mums as to the police's attitude.

I'm not legal, but I'd certainly try and fight my corner.

Good luck.

If there are no witnesses I would have hoped they'd struggle to prove it.

Did anyone see the alleged incident? Or see you not do it.

aj - just makes me really nervous going up against them - because i agree real problems going on and they have put so much energy into policing the parking (not that anyone has taken any notice and have just carried on anyway!) I would love to know how the constabulary can justify so many people so police this over several days.... it wasn't about keeping the dcs safe it was about prtecting residents rights as an mp was involved apparently.

I feel that there is no way they will accept that i didn't do it - but really i didn't

Interstingly - a tiny four weeks to get me in court but it has taken months to get back in family court (i know this is a different system but you know what i mean?) re custody and could never convict my exh of abuse , even though they knew he was doing it so yes i am incredibly pissed off about this. Feel like after all the effort at the school (they were checking the details of all the vehicles making sure on insurance etc etc) and i am that result.

Section 5 is very open to abuse by the Police and i do feel that this is going too far.

SoupD - Apparently you don't need a witness - the person who could be offended is a theoretical person or the pc themselves - we were all leaving school and i cannot ask anyone if they did not see anything - it was a nanosecond and would require them lying just because they believe me (which is apparently wrong haha)

I really do feel it is a them and me - she was stood with a cso so he is classed as a witness isn't he? he wasn't actually looking up when i went to do it but i think that will not matter when we get in court. My gut tells me i am nailed guilty or not to be honest - all quite depressing.

Do you feel brave enough to go to the local press with a 'look how they're hounding an ordinary mum whilst burglaries are going on around the corner' sort of story?

well i am thinking abotu that to be honest - i spoke to a lawyer yesterday and she thinks this is just ridiculous (but then she ouwld she wanst to work for me)

Also found out yesterday that one of the other mummies got done for the same thing as well but she actually did stick bith fingers up at the same wpc - wpc was really aggressive to her because she was complaining that on the first day there were in actual fact 11 officers of one kind and another and when she had had a burglary it took them 3 days to com round and help in any way.

Just massively frustrating and also ofund out they definitely could have given both the other woman and me a fixed penalty fine (becuase it was so minor) for £80 which would have meant no criminal record for either of us - the problem is the long term thing of having a criminal record when i have enhanced crb for work and also may go for a while to the US and will not be allowed entry if i have criminal record.

Oops - giving the finger - I think you just need to say "it's a fair cop" and take your punishment.

The police wouldn't be patrolling the school unless there was a history of parking trouble (maybe you're one of those selfish mums who always pulls over on the zig-zags 'just for a moment'?).

You need to calm down and take it easy from now on.

Don't exacerbate the situation.

If my kids went to a school where the mums were constantly giving the finger to pcs (in front of their kids fgs!) I would seriously consider moving then to another school where respect for adults, self-control, citizenship and respect for others was more prominent in the school's thinking.

when you say you 'went to do it' what do you mean? you put your hand up then down again? a short wank gesture maybe?

Had something similar. There was a 'crackdown' at a no entry sign. Actually, it was a restricted no entry, with times imposed, from 0700 - 1000. So, forgetting the clock in my car was 5 minutes fast, I went through at 0959, and got pulled over.

The PC in training read me my rights, and then got the court summons through alleging that I said, 'shouldn't you be nicking real criminals' which I never said. In fact, as an American, don't even use the term! What I said was that it seemed disproportionate to have 3 officers for a traffic issue, and perhaps warnings would be just as effective.

I did speak to the officer in charge of the PC's training and he said that a correction could be filed with the court.

At Magistrate's Court, I explained that the statement was incorrect, and I ended up with the fixed points and fine, although the Magistrate's were a bit puzzled why the Highway Code didn't differentiate between a No Entry and Restricted No Entry, but there you go.

Changed the clock in my car

ruddy norah - i did go to do it but didn't but the other woman told me she clearly did do it. Honestly, I wish i had at least a good dinner party story....

and nonnomum - we aren't constrantly giving the finger....stop exagerating it, it was just a really aggressive situation with poilce running everywhere threatening people with tickets. An no, as i have said i don't park on zig zags or anything like that - i never have - if you read what i said, it was about the day before really because the officer spent 45 mins telling me all the thing me could do me for when in fact it was just empty threats - i didn't swear then either but i wasn't exactly receptive to someone chucking their weight about with me.

Even in a worst case scenario - should i really get a criminal record and destroy my career and my husbands potential to go to the us???

in the scheme of things - it is heavy handed to say the least.
and besides, again i didn't do anything

Hi THH, watching this thread with interest. Please do update us when you can!

err well we shall see eh? the other mummy is going to plead not guilty too as she was massively provoked by this wpc - she too is taking the stance that we should have been given a fixed penalty at most and not be saddled with a criminal record for something so trivial. Mummies at school are all v. upset about it as a lot of them were really hassled unecessarily and no parking tickets were given out to anyone!

CCTV cameras anywhere nearby? Lots of schools have them, have a good look around next time you pick up.

In order to be eligible for a fixed penalty notice or any other non court disposal, you would need to accept guilt.

As you maintain you didnt do what you are accused of, going to court seems most appropriate so the evidence can be heard.

none sadly - no cctv - wish there was because it was extraordinary the level of manpower they threw at the problem and how aggressive they were too - not just to me but everyone.

Yes, CCTV was my first thought too. Ironic isn;t it that when you need it/want it it aint there.

I have found the police to be quite aggressive too lately in regular day to day dealings with them. There seems to be an attitude of 'we answer to no-one, especially not you stupid little taxpayers'. (stopped while driving, no infringement on my part at all, but lots of surly demands to know where I was going and why. Very aggressive attitude, and when I asked what i had done to warrant a stop got told 'we can stop who we like'. Rather a nasty little experience).

"so i go to give her the finger and shit out at the last minute"

Can you hear yourself??! Get a grip. It's a policewoman. Do you want your children to grow up regarding the Police contemptuously?

A s5 POA sounds incredibly excessive for this. Tarty, I'm a magistrate and I (and my colleagues) would think this was ridiculous. We are regularly critical of the things that the police bring to court, and the way that they do it, be it because it's OTT or sloppy preparation. So don't worry that the police will automatically be believed, honest .

The example in our guidelines for the lowest level for this offence is "shouting, causing disturbance for some minutes" and this sounds way below that. Get a solicitor for court, be calm, be smart and stick to the point: you didn't do it. When's your court date?