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Original poster

think friend may lose her ds-please help

13 replies

jerin · 16/01/2010 10:45

long story & tapping on mobile. My friend has a ds age 8 whose father is australian. They met whilst she was working over there, she fell pregnant, split up, she came home, talked & decided to try again, she went back, son born there. They split up for good. She has papers to say he should live with her whilst in oz. Her ex has been pretty useless, not much contact, no presents, no maintainence. She has taken son for visits to oz several times whilst he has been over just once. He is arriving mon to take son back with him. My friend is due to move there in a month. She doesnt want to go but he has put her under a lot of pressure-she is currently close to breakdown. Ex booked flights without telling her & just got married to girlfriend whom he has 2 young kids. Didnt tell her they were getting wed. I think ex will file for custody as soon as he back in oz and she will lose him. We are begging her not to let ds go- what can she do?

OP posts:
Turtlesmum · 16/01/2010 12:41

I don't know her financial situation but my advice is to not let DS out of her sight and get a lawyer. A good one who is experienced in this kind of thing. Get a legal agreement in place with access etc etc all laid out very clearly.

DecorHate · 16/01/2010 12:51

I don't think he will necessarily win custody but she might find that she is not allowed to take her ds out of Australia so she will have to stay there herself.

Think this is what would have happened when they split up if her ex had been proactive (I assume she moved back to the UK some time after they split up for good?)

I know of someone who moved to Oz with her dh (neither were Australian by birth). Can't recall if their dcs were born before or after they moved there but I know when they split up (due to his infidelity) she would have had to leave them with their father until they were 16 or 18 (can't remember which) if she wanted to move back here (she did want to move back as her father was dying but she obv chose to stay with her dcs)

STIDW · 16/01/2010 18:28

How long has your friend lived in the UK with her son and did she have the appropriate permission to remove the child permanently from the jurisdiction of the Australian courts?

Under the Hague Convention the country where a child is 'settled' ie habitually lives has jurisdiction over children cases. Therefore, if the child habitually lives in Australia any court order issued by the Australian courts has to be adhered to and the UK courts would be duty bound to return any child who was brought here without consent from the father or permission from the courts.

Original poster
jerin · 16/01/2010 20:12

Thanks for replies.
She has court papers signed by boys father saying son will live with her but he should have reasonable visitation. issued in oz. She has been in the uk now since 2004 or 5 before that she spent a while back in oz but it didnt work out. Thats when papers were issued. Seems the father has filled boys head with promises (past experience says he'll probably not keep) and has made poor lad choose between having a dad and siblings and being in oz or having none of them. He has put him under a lot of pressure and added to that he's now saying goodbye to pretty much all he remembers. My friend was planning to move to oz to live so ds would be closer to his father, although she was dragging heels a bit as not too keen on going. Her ex booked flights and just announced he's coming for his son and taking him back. She thinks its what the son wants so is going to let him go. She doesnt want to though.

OP posts:
Original poster
jerin · 16/01/2010 20:16

Oh and she is skint. Really broke. She knows someone who knows someone who is a solicitor and is kind of relying on that to fall back on should the worst happen in oz. We are having to be careful around her as she is close to a breakdown and have tried talking sense to her for months

OP posts:
tartyhighheels · 16/01/2010 20:27

She really should not let him go, once she has willingly handed over this child it will be harder to get him back if the father wants to keep him. It is better for her to return with the child and then go on from there rather than let the child go alone. If she gets into court in Australia they will want to know why she just let the Father take him.

The child is 8, and with the greatest of respect, it doesn't mater what he thinks, he is a child and an adult needs to make the decision and take responsibility and sort this out. What if the Father chooses not to return the child to his Mother when she does finally get there? Then that child has to carry the responsibility to making the decision to be parted form his Mother.

To be frank, this is a dangerous situation and you friend is being completely negligent to allow and ex and a small boy to make life changing decisions. If this gets into court she will be judged very harshly for letting an 8 year old go alone to Australia with a Father he doesn't know that well.

tartyhighheels · 16/01/2010 20:31

Ok, I have just re-read you OP and I wonder if your friend is in such a bad state mentally perhaps she wants the ex to take him because she needs/wants a break. She just seems to be letting go so easily...... perhaps you or another friend can offer her real support with her son? have him stay over a bit so she can get some alone time and maybe some help.

Original poster
jerin · 16/01/2010 20:43

She doesnt want him to take son because she cant cope. All this with the ex is pushing her to breaking point. whenever she's taken him to oz before to see his father she's always gone with him. She thinks she'll let him down big time by not letting him go as he's looking forward to seeing his dad. He's 8 - the gardens rosy- but it'll probably change when he realises his mums a day or so away............
she has no confidence, no self belief. We have been trying for years to help her but she just doesnt see it. She always gets the wrong guy, gets messed around. And we're all going to be so far away we'll not be able to pick up the pieces...........

OP posts:
STIDW · 16/01/2010 22:51

Taking a horse to water and being able to make it drink springs to mind ;)

From the legal POV if the child has lived in the UK since 2004/5 he is "settled" here and the courts in the UK would have jurisdiction. With any disputes about residence/contact in the near future Hague proceedings can be invoked and the Australian courts would have a duty to return him to the UK. It would be different after 3 or 4 months.

As one judge in an Australian relocation case said it cannot be assumed that a mother should in every case put her desires and aspirations second and live in a place of the father's choosing without considering whether the father could move. It is the welfare of the child that matters not the best interests of parents.

Your friend can get information and support from the international child abduction charity, Reunite, who also work on contact issues. However, she needs to make a decision about what it is she believes is in the best interests of the child.

StewieGriffinsMom · 16/01/2010 22:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mamas12 · 17/01/2010 13:43

Please get her some professional support. Someone who can deal with the ex for her. That way she cannot be bullied into doing what he wants instead of having an adult conversation about what is best for the child.
She needs to talk to womens aid for personal support too and I think you are a great friend to her.
I hope she doesn't 'let' this happen. She sounds like she is in a vulneralble state atm and could really do with the legal side to back her up.
Good luck

Original poster
jerin · 17/01/2010 19:49

Thanks everyone for all your advice....... I have spoken to her and emailed her with as much detail as possible. She is definitely intent on staying one step ahead of her ex and will never give up her son to him. She is wary of letting him go and will only do so if she's sure he wont try anything. I dont know him at all but she is pretty sure that after a few weeks the novelty will have worn off afterall he has only ever made the effort of coming to the UK once to see his son and then he sat in all day on the computer leaving the boy to play alone. If he did take him out my friend had to pay for them both. She is already emailing a lawyer in Oz and you've managed to highlight some points for her - so thanks again. I just hope that she can hold it together if needs be whilst so far from home......

OP posts:
STIDW · 17/01/2010 22:19

Just picking up on one point. I wouldn't bother with Women's Aid or Gingerbread about the international issue. Time is often the essence and Reunite specializes in international cases and works closely with the Ministry of Justice, the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and the Home Office and provides training for government departments, lawyers, academics and the police.

They maintain a database of solicitors and mediators with expertise in this field. Reunite's advice line phone number is available from their website;

www.reunite.org

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