Any experience of applying to vary a child arrangements order?

[FeelingSad4]

Hello,

Does anyone have any direct experience either by doing it themselves or working on a legal case to vary a CAO please?

Background - court ordered CAO six years ago for exdp to see 1 dc EOW and 1 evening eow. Exdp lives 2.5 hours away, he told cafcass he was in process of moving closer and the above arrangement was agreed with Cafcass saying that ex must facilitate dc's social activities on his time (with the view that ex was moving closer soon).

Once CAO confirmed, the weeknight contact was dropped immediately and 6 years later exdp still lives 2.5hours away. Child now at school and struggling with tiredness after weekends away, fallen asleep in class twice last term, missing events. Contact has dwindled to approx. 1 weekend every 6 or so weeks on average. DC is always available, if event comes up on weekend asks ex if they can attend, always told no so presume contact is happening, then hours before handover contact is cancelled. Child upset and hard to explain that I have to make them available, but we never know when contact is going to be cancelled.

Can i request a variation so that contact takes place locally so that child can always attend clubs, school events, parties, training etc. at weekends during term time and ex dp stays overnight locally with child staying with him? Im happy to reduce cms to cover hotel costs, i am just tired of having a broken hearted child who is being punished as my ex wants to mess me around.

Thank you

Just to follow up and say contact locally only for weekends that coincide with term time, not during school breaks.

Given the longstanding proven pattern of inconsistent and minimal contact I think you'd have a very strong case to vary it actually. Not sure you could insist on contact taking place locally but you could apply to regularise what is already happening IE reduce it to every 6 weeks you need to make him available.

Thank you, i don't want to cut the contact time down at all. I don't think EOW is enough to be honest, as child is really nonplussed about him as there isn't that relationship....they can go 3 months without seeing him which breaks my heart.

I want them to have a good relationship, I just feel at the moment DCs life is on hold waiting to know if he turns up or not. If contact was local, they could still go / say yes etc. to a sports fixture or a party etc. If Dad turns up, great they go. If not, and contact is cancelled the hour before handover, then they can still go, but Mum will take them. They always ask, always told no as will be away, then 80% of time contact is cancelled the hour before they are due to go and have a deflated child that can no longer attend as someone else is playing, or the party numbers already booked etc.

What are you expecting then? You can't force him to keep to contact arrangements or force him to see him more via a court order. Your best outcome will be to reduce the amount of time you have to make him available, or even not have to make him available at all, but for it to be at your discretion. You are also unlikely to be able to insist he travels all the way and books a hotel.

Just to say dont offer to pay for the hotel. This person is his father. You’re doing enough already.

But surely the court will never agree to less time? The relationship with their father is important. I thought the above solution would be in the child's best interests as the contact time is still there for the taking, but when the other parent doesn't turn up, then they aren't missing out socially.

Of course the court will agree to less time if that's what you're asking for and it's in the child's interest. You could certainly apply to keep the level the same but moving it close to your home but I don't see how it would be workable or much better than what you have now. Surely better to vary the order to reflect what the useless dad is actually able to commit to doing?

Can your son not ask and if his dad says no to the party/swimming/event he simply say fine, but I'm staying at mums this weekend I'll see you next time. I appreciate then you're breaking the order, but your ex will have to take it back to court to enforce it and you've got reams of evidence that back up he makes son say no, but then cancels anyway.
And if he does step up as hates being told your son won't be available then that's good too.

@FeelingSad4 a few issues here.
Where there is distance involved a court can impose an early return time on the Sunday so that the child has the evening at home before school on Monday.
But basically your ex has never complied with any of the court order. So going forward you could vary it to reflect what he has imposed in practice and if there is an event your child wants to do - you cancel his contact pre-emptively.
Yes, you would be technically in breach. However, if he wanted to enforce it the court would look again at the needs and best interests of the child and should update the order taking account of all current circumstances.

I am constantly threatened with breaching the order all the time and reguarly deal with slanderous solicitor letters (that is another thread) so our child has to be available and I cannot risk being seen to breach the order. I have never breached it, and we only communicate via solicitors so every request our child makes goes to his solicitor first via an email from me. Our child has kicked and screamed, refused to go and he just chucks him over his shoulder and goes. Our child does not get a say, in six years he still refuses to use our child's name. The order does not impact him, but is there to put me in my place, its just about control at the end of the day. I just want to make things essirr for our child, as they are suffering.

@FeelingSad4 but he is breaching the order! The solicitor's letters can say what they like, it is only the court that can determine breaches and action. So those letters are just (expensive) empty threats.
I hope you're keeping a full diary of what happens at every expected contact to evidence what is actually happening in terms of the CAO.
You're clearly very ground down, but I hope that you can reach a point where you feel strong enough to call his bluff and see what he actually does if you take control. In your dc's best interests.

Thank you, ground down is perfectly put. Yes evidence of everything is being collected, I know the abuse is against me, always has been, but I'm trying to gather the courage to stand up hence this post trying to understand the possibilities before action and making life 100 times worse.

The court will agree to less time if it's in the child's best interests.

You're right that the child's best interests are to see the father every other weekend, and that the relationship is important. If the father were capable of keeping to that, then it would undoubtedly be the best option. But it seems he isn't.

It's not in the child's best interests to be left hanging every other weekend and then let down. That communicates to them that they are unimportant and at the bottom of the father's priority list - he might not get round to them like he might not get round to a second lot of laundry. That is very, very much not in their best interests. It's actively harmful.

If the current pattern of promises and let-downs are harmful then the court will vary the order to something he can manage - say once every 6 weeks if that is what he's doing. It's better for your child to have the certainty of seeing their father every 6 weeks and enjoying it than the loss of the promise, disappointment and rejection twice out of every three contact sessions.

Someone who can’t be bothered to turn up more than once every few weeks isn’t going to take you to court when the only one breaching the order is themselves. They sound like an idiotic narcissist. Imagine being so stupid you send all info via a solicitor changing you god knows what per hour. You need to grey rock him.

Have you been on any freedom type courses from woman’s aid or similar? You’re right this is all about controlling you. It’s post separation abuse.

Have you got any support groups in your area - if you call women’s aid they may be able to refer you.

Thank you, yes had womens aid support for the initial court case where he was asking for our child to live with him.... I have completed a freedom course about 5 years ago now. It is hard because the stance has always been it doesnt matter what happens against or to me, the courts only care about the child's best interests. Totally understand, but sometimes its not as easy or clear cut. The breaches his side are continuous (not just missed contact time), yet his solicitor denies any wrong doing and I get the lovely letters and threats :(

Someone who can’t be bothered to turn up more than once every few weeks isn’t going to take you to court when the only one breaching the order is themselves.

Honestly you would be amazed how often this happens. It doesn't generally work out well for them in the end, obviously, but it does happen especially as part of a pattern of post separation abuse where the aim is to cause maximum stress to the ex rather than spend time with the child.

@FeelingSad4 just remember that what's in those letters is purely what your ex is paying the solicitor to say. So legal letters but with no legal standing. Just because a solicitor says there is no wrongdoing doesn't mean that's true. It's just an attempt to intimidate which seems to have been working- which is why he keeps doing it.
Bullying by proxy.

I would say yes to the parties but speak with the Mum of the party child and explain the situation and you will cover the party cost if they don’t attend.

Ultimately I think it would be best if it was no longer a EOW arrangement and move it to school holidays etc.

I would start letting him go to the parties etc it sounds like the balance is in your favour. That’s good you’ve had help before. Remember you can always reach out for more. And that his solicitor is just someone being paid to type out letters. I’d get a shredder :)

But seriously keep documenting everything. He wouldn’t look good in court.

To be honest, its not the parties as such, but more the fixtures around football and recently taken an interest in cricket. The manager is great and asks if they can play, says no, visit is cancelled, child still wants to go to support their team and mates, but manager has already got a team with subs, so hard to even get 5 minutes play. I don't understand sports and teams, but they always seem discombobulated and flat. A few weeks ago it was a final game with some ninja thing at the local leisure centre and pizza tea for the team, which they had to decline, ex promised something already planned and arranged for that weekend, visit was cancelled, child couldn't attend the ninja thing and didn't want to turn up for the pizza part in case that was pre booked too.

At the moment, the cao says half school holidays which has never happened and ive paid for the childcare as I can't take leave tp cover it all. I haven't counted that contact time as missed contact time yet, was going to try and work out the percentage of court order time vs. Actual time spent together, but it might just make me more upset.

If you applied to recalculate CMS payment based on the amount of overnights he's actually having, would that focus his mind to showing up more frequently?

Its in the same bracket, so 1 to 44 nights is the same i think :) thank you though

How old is your son? I’m surprised no one has asked you that. The older he is, the more weight his views will carry with CAFCASS and a judge.
and I would echo what a previous poster said, go back to the women’s support group or another one, you need support in this.

6 so a way to go yet

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