Fees after initial free half hour, delay, and less than accurate work.

[grumpygrape]

I’m trying to help a neighbour (A) with an issue regarding her ex-partner and their children. I believe A has been sucked in by the ‘free half hour’ come on from a large practice of solicitors and is now facing a bill of almost £1,000 for sending a single email to her ex.

A isn’t worldly wise and is dyslexic. She had an initial phone discussion and approx. a week later the solicitor sent a draft of an email for them to send to A’s ex.

A asked me about this draft and I tried to give her some pointers to where the wording was, I felt, inappropriate (addressing the ex by his given name, referring to ‘access’ as opposed to ‘time with’ etc.’), was inaccurate, and didn’t seem to clearly reflect her views. Having seen the draft, I noticed the author is a paralegal. I asked Z if she knew what the solicitor/paralegal would be charging her, specifically if there was a fixed cost or hourly rate. She didn’t know; all she knew was the first half hour was free but realised she would have to pay after that. However, costs after the first half hour had not been discussed.

After A sending details of suggested changes to the first draft it took another week for the paralegal to respond with a second draft. Unfortunately, this draft had one sentence which was still inappropriate and grammatically didn’t make sense. It also included a threat that if ex didn’t comply with one request, A would deny him spending time with the children. This is something Z has always said she would not do unless there was a serious safeguarding issue.

The key issues A has with her ex are introducing the children to a very new partner and discussing finances with the children. Children are 7 and 10. He is also irregular with committing to and attending at pick up and drop off and has refused to use a coparenting app for calendar and communications.

A contacted the paralegal today and stated the changes she wanted to the second draft and asked what the current costs were. The paralegal later sent an e-mail stating £800 + VAT.

I have very little experience of dealing with solicitors on a commercial basis but I have checked various sources which seem to indicate the hourly rates for a paralegal are between £40 and £120 per hour, although I am aware the larger practices do charge up to £270 +VAT per hour. Sources also indicate solicitors should tell clients at their first contact what the hourly or fixed rate charges are likely to be.

Having delved into the solicitor’s’ website I find this specific paralegal’s hourly rate is £250 +VAT. The Family Solicitor in the practice charges £295 +VAT and the Director £350 +VAT. This is a large city in the Midlands/North but not London.

Does anyone have any advice I can give A ? She has unknowingly racked up a bill of almost £1,000 for an email which her ex could just ignore and which doesn’t have formal consequences. I feel she has been badly advised and served but as I wasn’t present at the initial consultation I can’t swear to any misdirection.

If they didn't send the T&Cs and initial engagement/client care letter setting out who will be working on her case and giving an estimate if costs, they are in breach of SRA rules and your friend doesn't have to pay. However, it's extremely unlikely that a well-known large firm would do this. It's normally something that a dodgy high street firm might omit to send (although also very rare).

If the initial client care letter wasn't sent, the paralegal really messed up. It's a very serious breach of the rules of conduct.

Cutting to the chase: help your friend write a letter to the senior partner at this firm in the terms of your first post. Emphasise that no client care letter or estimate of costs was provided. Ask for an itemised bill (assuming you don’t already have one) showing how much time was actually spent on this matter.

My experience of dealing with a firm of family lawyers who receive multiple awards was that their casual and careless mistakes in correspondence was always explained away. I am a qualified professional in another field and no way would those errors have ever been acceptable. So she with your help will need to ask for T&Cs, client engagement letters, and to be clear in writing that she doesn't e oect to ever be billed for correcting their errors. @mumsnetwe still can't edit typos on the app. #crazy

If you have the energy I would ask your friend if you can contact the firm on her behalf representing her as a “vulnerable person” and aka them for evidence that she was told the charges & T&C as she received nothing in writing. That she told them she was dyslexic and as a ND they should be aware she is considered to be vulnerable.

Sit back and see if they come back with an audio or transcribe of the convo.

Even if they come back with evidence you can still challenges the bill on the fact no advice was given, the incorrect terminology, poor grammer etc and that what was produced should take even a paralegal less than 1 hour as a client shouldn’t pay for their fir to correct their errors. At this point £250 +VAT will see like a bargain.

X posted with so many others!

I’m intrigued by this notion that having dyslexia makes you vunerable. We have generations of VERY dyslexic family members (including my own daughter) who are all highly successful business owners amongst many other things. Yes, many of them can’t write well for toffee and my self made multi millionaire brother in law can barely read a menu in a restaurant (I slightly jest here but his reading is atrocious) but vunerable and in a position to be taken advantage of? absolutely not. I’m saying this because a. I’m curious to hear from people in the legal profession as to whether this in itself makes a client vulnerable and b. To the OP - I think there must be other things aside from dyslexia that make your friend more vulnerable that might be worth bringing up?

One dyslexic person is one dyslexic person, and it impacts each individual differently. The equality act 2010 is clear that it can indeed be classed as a disability. It is a neurodivergent condition.

I had NO idea it is a neurodivergent condition 🙄 thank you SO much for explaining that to me 🙄 That is not what I am asking - I am asking what it is about dyslexia on its own that then makes someone vulnerable because in my experience it doesn’t, it’s other conditions people may have that make them vunerable. They get that the OP’s friend is vunerable - she certainly sounds it but that isn’t dyslexia alone.

Legal services in particular have their own classification of vulnerability. Having limited financial means can mean a professional should treat the client as vulnerable even if that person isn't using Legal Aid. It's much broader than a protected characteristic.

Oral explanations of costs are not enough. Solicitors MUST send clients a written breakdown of their estimated fees and hourly rates as well as the names of the caseworkers/supervising partners in charge and the complaints procedure. It's a very serious breach of the rules of conduct if this information is not provided in writing at the start of any case.

It's how information is processed. So, instead of rolling your eyes at me, do a bit of reading on why it can be a vulnerability. Here's some detailed information for you. https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/dyslexia/about-dyslexia/what-is-dyslexia

I don’t need to - my daughter, husband, brother in law, father in law (I could go on) are all very dyslexic. I rolled my eyes at your patronising post and your inability to see the question in my post.

And they are all individuals.

The link I gave you answers your question. Have a good weekend.

Again, thanks to everyone who has responded here. There have been some very helpful posts, please excuse me from answering individually, as I think I said, I have other personal issues taking up my time as well as my neighbour’s.

I would like to make a general observation though.

OCD isn’t just about cleaning the loo flush multiple times and washing your hands after touching anything.
Alzheimer’s isn’t just about memory loss.
Dyslexia isn’t just about struggling to read and spell.
These are just the medical problems I have a little knowledge of and can assure everyone that every person with these diseases is different and although I hate the expression, everyone has a different journey with them and copes, using different coping mechanisms, or doesn’t in different ways. There’s also a lot of ‘masking’ goes on with all three.

I am going to follow up on some more suggestions made by posters and will see what next week brings us when the Invoice lands.

This is close to what I anticipate doing once I’ve seen the Invoice next week. I will also check with my neighbour if she was asked/told her initial conversation would be recorded.

If any of my old work team (I’m retired) had told me the initial draft of one side of A4 had taken them more than an hour to write I’d have been very unimpressed.

As far as I’m aware £250 an hour is top whack for a paralegal outside of London and at that level I would not have expected any professional, grammatical or cognitive mistakes requiring a significant redraft.

This is one of my issues. My neighbour is slow to process information, especially potentially complex issues regarding legal and financial matters. Oral explanations would ‘go over her head’, particularly if she felt under time pressure, and even if information was followed up in writing she would need to read the information a few times to get her head round it. This is why she brought the original draft to me. She realised it didn’t fit what she thought she’d expressed to the person she spoke to and wanted me to try and help her explain.

I have a few more links I need to follow up but if you are able to supply a link which specifically support what you said that ‘Solicitors MUST send clients a written breakdown of their estimated fees and hourly rates as well as the names of the caseworkers/supervising partners in charge and the complaints procedure.’ I would be extremely grateful.

Here's a starting point:

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/guidance/client-care-letters/

Worth noting though that the SRA handle discipline of practitioners, not redress for individuals. So reporting to them, as people are suggesting, won't help your friend's immediate problem, which is paying/not paying the fee.

I’m a solicitor. She should have received an engagement letter setting out hourly rates and an estimate for the work. If she didn’t, that is a regulatory breach and as such they would be foolish to sue her for the fees if she doesn’t pay.

If they do take the foolish step of suing her, then under the Solicitors Act 1974 she can seek a costs assessment. Failure to be clear about fees at the outset of the engagement makes it easy for a client to challenge the invoice.

She can also report it to the Legal Ombudsman.

All in all, no way would I pursue a client for £1000 they don’t want to pay, if I had not at least given a clear costs estimate by email, preferably in an engagement letter.

That said, if she likes the lawyers and wants them to continue to act, she should make the above points as part of a negotiation over the level of fees payable for this initial work.

Finally, she’s not going to be able to stop her ex from introducing a new partner, no matter how new they are.

A client care letter and a letter of engagement are the same thing! It’s essentially a letter setting out the terms of service and providing a price for the work. It’s important that clients have access to this before proceeding with work, it’s something firms are auditing on.

for what it’s worth, I’d be amazed if there was a single law firm with paralegals at a £40ph charge out rate. When I was a brand new paralegal I was charging out £145ph (though invoices are often fixed fee so this is effectively discounted). Also, just because the paralegal has sent the draft, the solicitor will likely have drafted this or at least confirmed it was suitable (which is added time/fees). It is unlikely to be solely the paralegal dealing with this.

i would check with A whether the £800 mentioned was just for the email (which would be very surprising) or if it was for a certain amount of work (e.g. “fee for preparing child arrangement order”).

Also it could be that the time on the ledger is currently sat at £800, but realistically this will be discounted or incorporated into a fixed fee, so she won’t actually be paying that.

Yet again, thanks to everyone for their assistance.

@PsychoHotSauce Thanks for that link – I’ve been rootling around the SRA website but it’s quite extensive and complex.

@Elektra1 Thanks for your confirmation; having the same information/advice from different people (especially on a specialist board) gives me more confidence. I had already advised her she can’t stop him from being a rubbish parent unless the children are at tangible risk. I think she just felt that a letter from a solicitor would give weight to her requests regarding talking about and introducing the new partner/woman friend and talking about finances.

I know CAOs can suggest not introducing new partners for 6 months and living together for 1 year and not discussing adult issues, particularly finances, with the children but these things are not enforceable.

‘If your mother got a job I wouldn’t have to pay her so much money (Child Maintenance) and I would be able to spend more on you’. My neighbour gets Carer’s Allowance (35 hours a week) so couldn’t take a job and I don't think CMS is reduced if she has a different income ?

She’s not enamoured of the solicitor/paralegal and I’ve said if we get to the stage where she needs more legal help, especially if it gets to Court, I will ask around to find a trusted one. I have some contacts who may be able to point me in the right direction.

@treeaspen Thanks for your input too. I realised £40 per hour was probably wishful thinking but I did feel £250 before VAT was at the top of the range for outside London.

When I asked if she knew if she would be charged a fixed or hourly fee she said she didn’t know. Now, I know a lot of us would know to get this sort of thing discussed and sorted at the outset but she doesn’t have the nouse/experience to do that.

I wish she’d taken me up on my offer to be with her when she consulted Citizens Advice or a solicitor. I think she felt she wanted to be independent and not imposing on me.

If it was a full blown solicitor who wrote the first draft then it’s even worse ! I assumed the paralegal had written it and, maybe, run it past their principal. The Family solicitor in the practice charges £295 +VAT and the Director charges £350 +VAT. The emails from the paralegal were copied to the Director and a Legal Assistant.

The £800 +VAT my neighbour was quoted (on the phone) was for work done to date which was up to making the final tweaks and sending the email to her ex. She is likely to get an invoice next week so we’ll know more then.

I’ve just done a word count and we’re talking just under 1,000 words.

There are further complications, which I can’t disclose, regarding the person my neighbour is Carer for and where she and the children live. These make the whole situation far more complex.

I’ll probably go quiet until next week but will check for further posts and information.

CMS is based on his income, not hers, so her employment makes no difference in that regard.

It sounds as though the firm are not particularly good though, especially with the spelling errors and lack of communication etc, so I would be tempted to bin them off. Without a signed client care/letter of engagement they’d be very hard pushed to enforce payment. If the bill does come back for £800, I’d be tempted to negotiate that down on the basis of no client care and being quite dissatisfied too. You’ll probably find they will the reduce that with minimal hassle.

i know it’s not the main point but as a paralegal I often copied in the solicitor who was overseeing the matter when I sent things over. It is generally a part of a paralegal’s role to send out letters, documents etc etc, whether they or the solicitor did the bulk of the drafting. If the solicitor is charging £295ph, I’d expect the paralegal to be charging in the region of £180 (ish?). So the £800 is only a few hours work, especially if the solicitor was also involved, but given the disappointing work provided that doesn’t exactly help things.

If things go to court she can get a McKenzie friend if needed, who can provide some level of assistance (usually either for free or cheap!), but I would probably recommend just finding a better solicitor to be honest!

i’ll be thinking of her!

Aside from helping her with this bill the biggest thing it would be worth helping her with in the long run is her expectations.
Can she stop him introducing new partners to the children? - No
Can she stop him discussing finances with the children? - No
They are both inappropriate, but there is no legally frame work to stop this.
Can she make him turn up for contact? - No
Can he be forced to communicate in a particular way ? - yes, but it needs to be a court and this will cost her money. My sister wasted a lot of money arguing about how she and her ex communicated to do with a 16 year old it was madness.

To be fair, isn't this exactly why anyone seeks legal advice? Which is what OP's neighbour did. It is the firm's job to advise and steer the client, not charge the client a hefty sum to draft something that they know, or should know, has no legal grounds and is a waste of time and money.

I work for a London fiem which charges £200 plus VAT per hour for Paralegals. The lack of engagement letter, terms and conditions and the astonishing cost for one email sounds awful to me. I would check to see whether the fees include the initial consultation, how long was spent taking instructions, etc. Ask for a copy of the time ledger.