Vacant house owner in care - moving in

[Sworkmum]

Hi,

hoping someone here may be able to advise. A sort of relative is more than likely going to have to go into a care home. Their only surviving relative (child) does not have power of attorney and the relative does not have capacity. It looks like social services will have to pay care home fees. Then upon their death house will be sold and repay from the asset. obviously no idea how long that’ll be.

2 issues, there is a cat (could be reluctantly rehomed - other family have their own pets so can’t take him)

the other is the house sat vacant for goodness knows how long. It’s not in great condition anyway, so this isn’t ideal.

I was thinking if a young adult sort of relative was to move in how would this work. They would have to cover bills, council tax, insurance etc. but not pay rent. The main aim is to have someone there who can look after the house (prevent burglary, pipes bursting, deterioration etc) rather than get money as will get no money if it’s vacant anyway and potentially keep the cat there who is oldish, so would be happier to not have to be rehomed. It can’t really be properly rented out, as no one has the legal right/capacity to.

how would this work, and would it be ok? There would be no tenancy agreement, they would just be living there as a family member to look after the house. Once it has to be sold they would move out and onto somewhere else. Seems like it could be good all round and helpful but not sure how this works legally.

I'm thinking that the local authority would insist the house is sold now to cover the care home fees?

there is a legal process to get power of attorney once the person has lost capacity. The LA social worker will advise.

Yup, the council will want (more than likely) a sale straight away if there is no prospect of return to the premises

You might ( unlikely) be able to slip under the radar and have the young relative live there until sold.

Hind sight is great, but this does illustrate the importance of power of attorney to give you that bit of lee way.

I would normally expect the LA to want the house sold asap. But as the person does not have capacity, and noone has POA, selling the house would be a long involved process.

LPA cannot happen now as it requires the person to have capacity to agree and sign the paperwork. Someone (child or LA) would have to take out a deputyship with the Court of Protection so they could take over the person's finances. That usually takes about 6 months to process, And deputyships are quite onerous so they may be prepared to wait until the lady dies.

Re the child staying in the house, I think you would need to liaise with the finance dept at the LA about it.

If the home owner who, is to be put in to care lacks capacity, and nobody has power of attorney, then there will be an allocated social worker who will take the case to the Court of protection, and may look for a relative as a deputy.

You cannot just move a relative in that would be squatting.

Quite long-winded and expensive though? If the house is the only asset and the funds raised will not be in excess of potential spend,there is probably little point in going down this route. And if there is an un occupied house ( so no dependent / spouse already living there) it will need to be sold anyway. So potentially setting up the power of attorney will create loads of work for a relative that SS would naturally pick up.

For me it would be how much control I wanted to be in going forward and what the estate is worth. Whatever the house will need to be sold sooner rather than later.

The son/daughter of the person needing care can apply for deputyship via the Court of Protection. It takes between 6 & 9 months to be granted, costs about £750 and the deputy will need to keep records of every thing spent and any property sold. If the son/daughter does not wish to apply for deputyship the Local Authority adult safeguarding unit can apply for deputyship to enable the affairs of the person needing care to be dealt with whilst they are alive. Alternatively a solicitor can be appointed to apply for and hold deputyship. Re living in the house rent free, I think you are on very dodgy ground and may be considered a squatter as the owner is not able to make an informed choice about allowing someone to live there rent free and the court of protection would expect a persons property to create an income for them. Check with a solicitor first.

If the 'young adult' could find a door that's ajar, maybe said person could just slip in and make sure the cat is fed and the house doesn't collapse ? A priority if it hasn't been done already, is to shut off the water supply to house, especially in the weather we're having now.

It won't be POA - most likely deputyship. Often long-winded and complicated. This is why more people need to get POA while they still have their marbles.

VERY unlikely the LA will pay for fees indefinitely while the house sits not even on the market.

You seem to have some wishful thinking going on there op!

I have an acquaintance whose mother moved into a care home recently, the house was sold for approx 300k and the proceeds are being used to fund her care home. He is under the impression that the local authority can only take £70k of the proceeds from his mother's house and that the rest will soon be his.

He gets very stressed and annoyed if anyone tries to tell him that this is not the case.
Wishful thinking from him too! It's understandable- that's a lot of money to go up in smoke isn't it ☹️

The state is unlikely to pay care fees if there’s a home to be sold. Assets have to be under 23k to qualify for state funding.

A family member needs to apply to the court of protection to become their deputy. For that you will need a capacity assessment preferably by a doctor to present to the court. Then you will need court approval for the sale.

It will take a while and it would be sensible to get advice from a solicitor to limit delays.

Until the house sells you will have to organise care at home, unless she has assets to fund say a year or more in a care home while you organise the court of protection + house sale.

If she has < 23k in savings, the state may fund her home care while the house is being sold.

What is a sort of relative? You either are or are not. You do not have permission to move into someone else's house, the court of protection will get involved now, the authorities will want the house sold to pay for carehome fees.

I don't believe this is correct. If care is needed in a care home the person can be moved into the care home. A relative will then apply for deputyship. Once they have deputyship the property can be conveyed and the local authority paid what is owed out of the proceeds. The LA will often take out a charge in the interim to secure their financial interest.

As the house is unoccupied I would assume the council will want it sold now.

Well it might be squatting, but do it anyway if you’re sure the person wouldn’t have minded. Better not to rehome an old cat if it can be avoided, and no house sale is going to be immediate.

Do not do this, you gave no right to live there, it's an asset to pay for carehome fees, the cat could be removed or try the cinnamon trust, do not break the law,

In principle you’re right, but now I think it very much depends on the LA. In theory you should be able to set up a DPA (deferred payment agreement) but now LAs are cash strapped, in practice funding a care home place while the CoP sorts out deputyship and then decrepit house sits on the market and fails to sell, is not something they will necessarily agree to. The eligibility criteria is quite strict.

If the relative has any savings they will tell you to pay for private care while the house is being sold.

How can the owner give consent if they don't have capacity? None of you have the right to decide what to do with your relative's property and deciding that one of you is going to move in and take adverse (?) possession of the house seems very suspicious to me. Home the cat yourself, if you're that worried. It's an old cat, it's hardly onerous.

It’s a step relative. There is really no issue with the money, the house will be sold to
pay care home fees. But as others have rightly said this would have to be done through the court of protection now. Which will take a long time, meanwhile the house will sit empty.

we have a dog who doesn’t like cats so can’t rehome, and the child of the person has their own cat. The cat to be rehomed is nasty to other cats so could only go somewhere as an only cat and we don’t have anyone in that situation.

they are due to meet SS this week hopefully. But I think the person will need to go into a home as not physically able to move around now. And so will need 24hour care. No savings, but has the house as an asset.

currently the child is having to visit 2x per day to feed the cat and tend to the house so heating/water etc still being used so it is ok. However the child doesn’t drive so this plus visiting parent in hospital is taking all day.

as they were a full time carer for them they now lose carers allowance and therefore will have to get a job so going to and from the house for the cat, or to look after the house isn’t going to be feasible.

The cat could be rehomed, the house could be left empty and go to ruin. This relative staying just seemed like it could be a potential option to help, keep the cat there and keep the house ticking over until it needs to be sold once all court stuff is done. There is no issue with the young adult remaining where they are, it just seemed a better alternative than the child of the person having to travel there and back numerous times a week to ensure all is in order as this added to visiting their parent most days is going to take its toll. They are an only child and thier partner also has an elderly relative in a care home who is being visited most days. So trying to make their life easier if possible by thinking of alternative solutions.

child would prefer not to rehome the cat, as they have been full time carer it is like their own pet in many ways.

we also do know the person going into care would have preferred the cat to stay and know someone was looking after their house, and knows and trusts this family member. But obviously can’t legally consent due to current situation.

Yes we did advise to get this done before now. The partner of this person did and their situation with elderly relative was therefore much more straightforward. But it’s too late now.

Sadly it causes all kinds of legal issues not least with the house insurers. The young adult will not have a tenancy and should there be any issues with the house, the insurers won't pay out if it's been more than 30 days since the owner occupied it and there is no tenancy in place. Without POA, it can't be set up.

The simplest thing if there is no prospect of return is actually to sort out the house, drain the tanks, turn off the water and secure the house. Then let SS sort out a sale. If there is a will that indicates what should happen to any personal possessions then SS can advise if family can access and remove, or bring some small things to a nursing home if relevant.

All that said, you could probably fly under the radar for a couple of months while something is sorted for the cat but I certainly wouldn't earmark it as a housing solution past easter.

Thanks for this. I think the deputy ship is what they will have to do. But it is lengthy and worried about the house sitting empty whilst it’s done

We had a similar situation with an elderly relative. The property wasn’t fit for renting and so young relative was installed as a house/ pet sitter. Home insurance was ok as property was being lived in. Tbh elderly relative carried on paying the bills as it’d of muddied the water between tenant and house sitter but was gifted enough to cover them by another relative.

I do think it’s better for houses to be occupied, cleaned, heated and garden kept on top.

Thanks for this. The child still has a key and is accessing to feed the cat and sort things out. The person is aware and happy to agree to this, they have enough capacity to agree this.

it’s not even a housing solution as it would never be a long term thing. The young adult is fine where they are, but is the only person ‘available’ without a property of their own to commit to do this if it makes sense. I am just trying to avoid the child having to visit regularly to sort things if someone else with availability could do this more easily. If that makes sense.