Artist advice about health and safety

[Sunshinemummy2023]

Hi, I would like some advice about an art studio and how health and safety applies. I have part of a shared space with two other artists. There is a door way to the studio spaces (room divided into three each with a door way) i habe the middle space which means I have no walls which is difficult as can only hang minimal work. the landlord doesnt want to put doors on the spaces and prefers to leave the open. The corridor outside the studio is accessible to the public and other businesses in the building which means the studio spaces are also accessible to these parties. I jave been there over a year, but the landlord now wants to make us responsible for the spaces and of anyone accesses them. So for instance it coild be that some started a firepr stole some scissors and attacked people it would be our responsibility to lock all these materials away. I dont see how we can be held responsible thougb as theres no doors on the studios and hes refusing.The building itself has events goi ng on into early evening.a few nights a week. It would be good get some advice how to handle the situation

I’d look for somewhere else.

My friend has an art studio. One door in to which she has the key.

You can’t focus or do anything properly with worrying about your stuff. Your landlord is a twat.

Thats unfair to twats

My inclination might well be to leave followed by a parting shot to the HSE & Local Authority as I assume amongst other things he may have an alcohol licence

Is it even legal not to have doors?

Shared studio spaces are a nightmare . I would leave . There are a myriad of issues , all of which can and do play out frequently and I’ve seen too many things go wrong .
Your stuff is not secure, your working time is interrupted by people and their habits. From a health and safety perspective it depends entirely on what everyone else is doing , but you could be exposed to chemicals (solvents , adhesives) without proper ventilation, dust if people are sanding. Fire risks if people are not taking proper precautions with storage of materials. And I have seen stuff go ‘missing’ too many times, be it work or tools. With workshop guests entering the space this is a real risk, and I doubt you’d be able to get proper insurance under the circumstances.

Thanks everyone, its pretty stressful situation. The studio is near my sons school so really loved having access to it and was manageable cost and location wise around work and school drop off and pick up. Which is why ive tried to overcome different issues that have come up. But this is now taking it a step too far.. refusing to put doors on the studio spaces whilst making us entirely responsible for the space. I just dont see how that is reasonable at all to rent paying people. The added difficulty is that for months they have let one of us have the studio space without paying rent, because shes an immigrant, she has been eligabke to get paid work for a year, but she refuses to get a job that isnt at a level she is willing to do. She is getting universal credit but still wont pay anythjng towards rent or wont do art classes in lieu of rent which they have also asked her to do innthe circumstances but shes refused saying she csbt be bothered. So theres an added complexity to it all that at times has peed me off, thay they have allowed ro go on and still is happening. As Im working and struggling to pay the rent on top of my own household bills, going to studio after work extra to get hours heres and there and days off. So thats also been difficult this year to deal with. I do feel like I should leave now with this added issue and give my notice if they arent going to put a basic thing like internal doors and windows on the space (we also have two huge gaps where a window covering should be but he also refuses to do that. So we have had to put plastic sheeting over it ) eurgh totally rubbish situation.

Surely not having doors is a fire hazard? Lots of inflammable materials around.

Totally depends on the nature of your space though. Many of these artists studios operate on a basis whereby charities are able to use a legal loophole to enable landlords to avoid business rates if their vacant commercial properties are used for charitable purposes, eg an arts agency providing space for artists.
In this case , it is either here nor there what one person pays and what one person doesn’t , as the charity designated studio space based on individual need. I know for me personally ,I work with an agency that provided studio space for lots of artists from Ukraine . Artists that lost everything fleeing from war and we were all more than happy to accommodate in any way we could, some of us shared our personal space and materials although safety regulations still had to be adhered to in order to comply with the building insurance regulations as well as basic h&s. None of this negates the need for fire reg compliance or for ensuring that nobody becomes sick working in a space not fit for purpose. Indeed at times we’ve been frustrated at times for a space to close due to mould or damp or insufficient ventilation, but this is a risk that no landlord can take , charity or otherwise. If this is not a charity, and a private landlord , they are simply taking the piss, but this is common as the perception of artists as hobbyists is pervasive and exasperating.
It shouldn’t really be any of your concern whether an artist in your space wants to host workshops in lieu of rent because frankly if they can’t afford rent they need the time to dedicate to their own practice.

@Dustycrusty sorry appreciate your views, but I totally disagree with you about everything you have written. You have made a lot of assumptions and comparisons based on your own experiences but this isnt the same. The artist I work with spent over a month and a half over the summer abroad on holiday with her husband and daughter. Whilst not paying rent. She went on 'holiday' (she is describing these trips as holiday her self) in October to london for a long weekend with a friend. In the last week she has been to two local cities 'christmas shopping' her words. So it is my business when Iam in the next space to her trying to scratch a living in this freelance unpredictable industry whilst paying my own household bills and her not paying rent and shes refusing to for months on end, refuses to work and is actually barely at the studio. Also the studio is classed as one space on official documents so one party in that space (that we share) isnt paying her part of the rent, some landlords would enforce that bill on to us but thankfully they arent. They have asked her to leave because there is a local autistic artist that wants a studio space and has enquired there and happy to pay rent, but she has refused to leave, promising she will pay at some point. I also have to listen to her talk about all the above whilst im rushing around working and she point blank refuses to pay rent ot contribute anything to the artistic commjmity we are trying to build there even if that is running an art class (which the landlord has even offered to pay the materials for ) i have absolutley no problem anyone coming here for work or to escape an awful situation. My grandparents were all immigrants, so iam second generation immigrant on both sides of my family and proud of it. I do though have a problem with someone taking the utter piss out of the immigration and benefit system, taking the piss out of everyone around them and a hardworking charity. Also I have no problem with H&S regulations as you state but all that is extemley difficult amd unreasonable to follow if there is no door and no divide or barrier from public or private space. I met with our landlord yesterday and insisted these cannot be enforced untill a door is added to the studio spaces which he has now finally agreed to do. Which is great news. It was this that was unreasonable up to now. Also i ahve asked him to separate the studio space into three going forward so we arent grouped together on H&S docs or contractually going forward as I know they are still pursuing her for the money she owes.

Oh no shade intended. I was trying to illustrate the point that your situation depends entirely on which type of landlord you have. I have worked in lots of studios , private landlords and ones run by charitable agencies, but unless your landlord is some sort of cowboy , none of these issues should arise, as everything should be written up in stone contractually to ensure no tenant is liable for another defaulting on rent or on health and safety issues, this shouldn’t be your problem. I have shared open plan spaces too but the terms have always been simple , anyone failing to adhere to contractual terms has their contract swiftly terminated . If a tenant was struggling financially and had agreed their own personal terms for a rent reduction with the landlord fine , not my issue, and certainly not out of my pocket.

Well it waa you comparing her to your experience of supporting a ukrainian refugee and how you stated you all were happy to support them and make allowances for their financial constraints, as if i should.do the same. Its an emotive subject for me at the moment but that read like shade, ie. I should be more empathetic. It isnt a lack of empathy on my part, but I have worked in the next space to her for the last 18 months, my empathy is gone now. She has real serious language problems when convienient, when anyone including me tries to resolve anything with her, im.sure she does all that with them. the rest of the time she speaks english fluently. I have given her lifts, tried to help her find jobs, help her find places to exhibit her work all sorts.. but she just wants someone to do everything for her. I dont understand why they arent just chucking her out, its pretty shit they arent to be honest.. i cant refugee status as a reason i cant pay my rent. i believe the trustees for the charity are now asking whats going on. But can only assume they arent because they either want to believe she will pay or that she will at some point and want to help. Im pretty sure she isnt telling them about her whole lifestyle and what she gets up to. Of course he can rnforce missing rent on us if this continues to go on, by increasing our rent to compensate for hers. Im sure she will then continue to still not pay.

What anyone else pays is between them and the landlord. I would just leave, can't you do your art at home it would save you the rent and be more secure? Or find somewhere else, where you are sounds unsuitable in many ways.

Agree to a certain extent on the landlord funds but this is a shared space so puts us all at risk if they arent getting the right revenue for the studio. She didnt tell us she wasnt paying rent it was the landlord whos told us whats going on. They could just turn it into office space instead. Which they have done for half of the studio floor. There was more artists here before 8 in total now just 3 of us. They have rented out the office space they have created to other businesses to get rent from them. I may leave though need to think about it. Its just close to home, my sons school and rent is low that they charge and i get work from being there its a hub location for many other charities and businesses, i got offered a job delievrring a series of workshops and a sculptural outcome for public display, which was on friday due to being there. Things are better now hes said we can have doors on the studios. Im just going to ensure document wise that were separate in terms of any responsbilities.

Agree to a certain extent on the landlord funds but this is a shared space so puts us all at risk if they arent getting the right revenue for the studio. She didnt tell us she wasnt paying rent it was the landlord whos told us whats going on. They could just turn it into office space instead. Which they have done for half of the studio floor. There was more artists here before 8 in total now just 3 of us. They have rented out the office space they have created to other businesses to get rent from them. I may leave though need to think about it. Its just close to home, my sons school and rent is low that they charge and i get work from being there its a hub location for many other charities and businesses, i got offered a job delievrring a series of workshops and a sculptural outcome for public display, which was on friday due to being there. Things are better now hes said we can have doors on the studios. Im just going to ensure document wise that were separate in terms of any responsbilities.

What do you mean when you say that your landlord wants to 'make you responsible' for your space? How are they proposing to do this? Are they asking you to sign something?

Nobody can be 'made responsible' for a lunatic trespassing/breaking into a property/space they rent, stealing a pair of scissors and attacking people.

It's the landlord's responsibility to ensure their property is secure. If the building is open to the public and the landlord is concerned about people accessing certain areas, they need to make those areas secure, eg with lockable doors.

It's tough to advise without knowing exactly what your landlord is proposing though.

This other woman's situation is irrelevant to your issues with the landlord - the price you pay for using a shared space is that you might not get along with the people sharing it. If you don't like it, leave.

Well i have explained on these points @Kimura . As i have said myself it is unreasonable what hes proposing as we have no control over who has access to the area right now. So yes i agree. As mentioned in an earlier post he has now agreed to fit doors to the space which is a step forward from the current situation anyway. All your points about scissors etc i agree with yes all that could happen right now and it is that, that hes suggesting he will make us responsible for, but thats not reasonable without doors. Hes given us health and safety docs and i just plan to stipulate when he agreed tk fit the doors and that this isnt enforceable till then beyond me taking reasonable steps to reduce risk. Ive already also explained that as its a shared space on documents he has been putting all our names with one person signing off for all. I only saw this when all this started about H&S, so yes the finance then does become an issue given what hes sayin about H&S. I have however asked that all the docs be made separate with us each having out own copies that we each sign up to covering our own individual space which hes agreed to. I know i can leave but thats not always as easy as you think to do. As ive said this is near my sons school, near home and affordable for me, let alone the whole cost/time moving out and looking for somewhere else in middle of winter. i work as an artist so need a studio space to do my work and have a base for people to meet with me and do workshops. People shouldnt always have to leave a home/work place because a landlord is being unreasonable my original post was about getting some advice how to handle the situation.. the last resort would be leave, which i was going to do if he didnt put doors on.

Well i have explained on these points @Kimura . As i have said myself it is unreasonable what hes proposing as we have no control over who has access to the area right now. So yes i agree. As mentioned in an earlier post he has now agreed to fit doors to the space which is a step forward from the current situation anyway. All your points about scissors etc i agree with yes all that could happen right now and it is that, that hes suggesting he will make us responsible for, but thats not reasonable without doors. Hes given us health and safety docs and i just plan to stipulate when he agreed tk fit the doors and that this isnt enforceable till then beyond me taking reasonable steps to reduce risk. Ive already also explained that as its a shared space on documents he has been putting all our names with one person signing off for all. I only saw this when all this started about H&S, so yes the finance then does become an issue given what hes sayin about H&S. I have however asked that all the docs be made separate with us each having out own copies that we each sign up to covering our own individual space which hes agreed to. I know i can leave but thats not always as easy as you think to do. As ive said this is near my sons school, near home and affordable for me, let alone the whole cost/time moving out and looking for somewhere else in middle of winter. i work as an artist so need a studio space to do my work and have a base for people to meet with me and do workshops. People shouldnt always have to leave a home/work place because a landlord is being unreasonable my original post was about getting some advice how to handle the situation.. the last resort would be leave, which i was going to do if he didnt put doors on.

You haven't answered my question - What do you mean when you say he's 'making you responsible?'

If you leave sharp objects on the floor of your space and I cut myself on them during an art class, that's obviously your responsibility and always has been.

But if I walk in off the street uninvited, take one of those sharp objects and stab a bunch of people, you can't be 'made responsible' for that, doors or not.

I understand him expecting you to take ownership of heath and safety - making sure your supplies are stacked properly so nobody is getting hit by a falling tin of paint or whatever, but he can't just 'make you responsible' for random occurrences or things that fall under his remit as the property owner.

I suspect either he's confused, or you are.

Suspect away but it is what I have already said @Kimura. He wants and expects us to take responsibility for the space even when we are not there. He even used a simialr example you have written to explain this in his case someone wandering in uninvited and eating some pastels left on the table and choking or having an allergic reaction because they are toxic. In his view this would be our issue because we left them out. Which is why there is the whole discussion about the doors, because there is no divide between public and private, doors would obviously prevent this. which is why it is unreasonable for us to be expected to be responsible for this when there is no barrier. I originally asked for advice as to how to overcome this with him. There is no barrier at his choosing not ours, we have offered to have doors fotted ourselves in the past which he hasnt allowed us to do because he wanted it to be open. At that point though he wasnt asking us to sign off health and safety documents and it is that which has changed the whole situation for us which was the reason for my original post. He has now finally accepted doors have to be fitted for any of this to even start to make sense. But im just reiterating here everything j have already said a few times now. It is not just ourselves having problems with this landlord, others in the building are too. Theres two other lones traders in different industries to us that are leaving the building becasue they cant reach agreements with him. In one case hes taken his bat and ball home totally about them leaving and slammed a door in their face the other day and he started shouting at them when they were asking him something and he slammed door in their face and they broke down in tears. As with a lot of landlords things are quite tricky to manage with him. Thanks though

So he thinks that if someone were to wander in and eat a pastille and choke on it, that he could somehow be held responsible for that and he wants you to sign something to absolve him?

The man's a lunatic. I imagine he's heard/read something on the internet and it's freaked him out. Still, I'd get a legal professional to look at the document before I signed it if I were you.