Blood test nurse with NO appointment got firemen to damage door.Who pays?

[logiccalls]

Someone who goes decades without any G.P. contact (being allergic to chemicals, and therefore never wanting to get pills) decided to get a private health MOT: The results were excellent, except for one which indicated it might be advisable to take a further blood test via the N.H.S.

The person was permanently disabled by a violent and stalking ex, therefore finds it difficult to get to a surgery, and asked them to send a home visiting nurse to do a blood test. This is a person made resilient by adversity, and keeping as healthy as possible, so with no history of mental problems or heart problems or anything else. (And even the requested blood test was resulting from a private MOT, which the NHS knew nothing about)

The GP has never been spoken to, just the receptionist, who promised to pass on the request for the blood test .

There was no further contact: NO appointment: No response: No email: No phone contact: No letter: No text.

Many weeks later, suddenly, a stranger had got into the block of flats, without using the intercom, and was agressively hammering on the flat door and trying to force the door handle to turn.

There was still no phone call, email or text. It could have been any intruder, inebriated, deranged or drugged. The occupant stayed silent.

The mobile phone rang, but with a witheld number, (which someone who has previously been stalked would of course never respond to.) Eventually, the stranger at the door went away. (There had been a parcel outside the door, before the stranger arrived, and as soon as she left, the occupant could at last open the door to retrieve it, and did so.)

An hour (?) later, a man was beating on the door as if to smash it in, and shouting. The occupant is deaf, but was obviously not going to open the door, to violent strangers, so again stayed silent. (But, because the parcel had been taken in, was clearly not lying unconscious on the floor for lack of a routine blood test, for which there had been NO appointment.)

The hammering on the door continued for hours, (?) and although the phone was constantly being rung, it was never used to send a text explaining there was any legitimate reason to attempt entry.

Later, it turned out the nurse had called the fire brigade, and it was their men taking over from her in battering the door. They then began to drill holes in the door.

The occupant had been unable to use the phone to try to get a lawyer, or to ring for any possible help from neighbours or the building caretaker. The 'number -witheld' calls were coming constantly.

With the flat's front door being destroyed, there was at last no choice for the occupant except to go to the door and call out "Who are you and what are you doing?"

A fireman explained who he was, and that there was a blood test nurse who had claimed that the occupant had "failed to attend an appointment for a blood test", which apparently he believed was justification for smashing the door. (?!)

a)There was NO such 'appointment'. b)The occupant had no idea who the nurse was, or the fireman was. c)Nobody texted.

But could it ever be reasonable to smash the door of someone for such a minor reason, for someone with no medical or mental illness history, and with evidence the person has taken in a parcel, so is obviously fit and well?

This is bullying and abuse of power, instigated by that extremely aggressive nurse, and enabled too readily by a fire brigade who were colluding in the constant phoning, yet never requesting a text should be sent, to a deaf occupant, to identify themselves or the blood test nurse, or to give information about the alleged "appointment".

(The medical records will not show much contact with the NHS, for decades, but there would be a note about deafness, so the fireman's statement that he had called out the word 'fireman' would not be justification to destroy a door.)

There is no house insurance. The front door is a security door and a fire door, so will be expensive to replace. Large holes have been drilled through it. Is it true, as the fireman suggested, that the NHS surgery will be liable to replace the front door?

Forgot to add- we are not able to call from our number. We are nursing service for housebound patients- we do not offer appointments - just think of what happened to you, thats perfect example of why we do not as we do not know what we are going to end up dealing with.
And lastly, it would of been escalated to managment to make that call, this all takes time.

How do you know who requested forced access ?

This is getting more and more bizarre...

OP, the nurse most likely tried to call you to organise an appointment. But as you yourself said, you don't answer phone calls from undisclosed numbers, so she would have no way of contacting you to organise said appointment or confirm that you were going to be home. So the only way to visit you would have been unannounced.

What exactly did you expect the nurse to do? Use her personal phone and disclose her number to you?

Maybe she tried to use the intercom but the OP being deaf didn’t hear her? 🤷‍♀️

@PigletJohn I register on the telephone preference service for one thing, but also if someone was trying to knock my door down and I was getting a call then I might assume they were connected instead of doing my best ostrich impression

I can understand why the whole door thing upset you, OP, but - in the kindest way - you sound like you’re struggling with MH. If you can improve that or, at least, find a strategy to deal with things, eg a friend or neighbour to call, then such incidents won’t happen and you won’t get so upset. ‘The person’, ‘the recipient’ and your manner of writing sounds very strange.

Get a Ring doorbell, speak to a friend or neighbour about how you can get their help to check things in a situation like this, and if you have reason to believe you might have contact from somebody (the GP/nurse in this situation) pre-empt it by contacting them beforehand.

This was a welfare check initiated because you didn’t answer the door or your phone on multiple occasions. I’ve asked for a welfare check on someone myself in a previous job. It was the police who did it not the fire service. The person saw it was the police and answered the door to them, having not answered multiple phone calls over a period of time. If you’re concerned about who might be at your door, get the Ring doorbell or a spyhole or simply get a chain put on your door so you can open it and check who’s there without the person getting in.

It is clear that you are struggling to see things from another person's perspective and are assuming that because you feel well and didn't want to answer the door the other person must know you are well but have trauma and that's why you didn't answer the door. This is how very young children think. From the nurse's perspective she is asked to do a home visit blood test, most people she does this for will be vulnerable. When she arrives there is no answer even after repeated phone calls and repeated banging. She makes the perfectly reasonable assumption that the person inside is unable to get to the door or answer the phone. This is nothing to do with the person being previously healthy. That person may have fallen down the stairs, had a heart attack, choked on their own vomit after drinking too much or any one of the thousand possibilities of why someone is not answering the door. What wouldn't have crossed her mind is 'oh this person probably has a history of trauma and stalking and wan't expecting me and so is too scared to answer the door i will just leave it and do nothing'. If you had been in need of emergency assistance can you imagine her saying this at a disciplinary meeting and how it would be seen? She would probably be struck off for gross negligence. You are being v v unreasonable and you need some serious intervention for your mental health. Your mental unwellness shows itself in your lack of understanding how other people see things. It is not normal to be holed up in your flat unable to even answer the door or the phone and not understand other people's perspectives and responsibilities.

Can you imagine if they hadn’t tried to do anything and the OP was ill in her flat and her mummified body found months later. There would have been an uproar if a nurse had said that they were sent to the house of a person to do a blood test. Had to be a home visit because the flat dweller was house bound and never left the flat due to severe allergies. And the nurse was knocking and calling there was no answer so they just left and did nothing?! If you tell people you never leave the property and then pretend to not be there….well consequences of your actions I guess.

Just because your parcel disappeared doesn't mean you'd taken it in. When the Amazon guy leaves parcels on my neighbour's doorstep I take them in and send her a text to say I have them to prevent them being stolen. If you WERE lying injured on the living room floor then the nurse would have been faced huge backlash for saying "But I thought she was fine! Her parcel wasn't there when I got back!"

You say you're fit and well and perfectly healthy and then say you're all but housebound. If you struggle to leave home alone how would you fare if you were to fall? Would you be able to get up unassisted? What if you'd fallen in the night and we're unable to reach your phone for help? Thats the sort of situation the nurse was concerned about.

Noone is suggesting you "fling the door wide open to potential attackers". We're saying that you heard an, admittedly loud, knock on the door and didn't so much as shout "Who's there?" Or "Please text me so I know who you are". You just.....sat there.... That is unusual behaviour. I'd even suggest it's an abnormal "Fight/Flight/Freeze" response as a result of your trauma. Yes, it's understandable but it doesn't make it healthy.
And if they hadn't knocked loudly how would you normally know they were there?
When I lived in a block of flats the postman had a key so never used the intercom. Would you answer the door to them?

And no, absolutely noone is calling a lawyer to say "Help! I am under direct threat and fear someone is literally about to hurt me". All the lawyer will do is call the police on your behalf. Bizarre.

District nurses don't make appointments as they only visit patients who are housebound. I'm very surprised with the history that you didn't follow up with the surgery and then the nursing team yourself!

The nurse could use the intercom like a normal person?? Bit slipped through the security gate, in a high crime area. The op didn't know when they were expecting a visit ( but would have responded to the intercom if used ) and are disabled due to volience of stalker - say you lived tower hamlets and heard banging and aggressive shouting - would you open the door? To f knows who ? When you were disabled due to an attack and felt vulnerable?

It shows you've never felt this level of vulnerability and don't have any standing to tell op how they should react with various physical and mental stuff stacked agasint them.

This is on the nurse.

The doctors here are quite good at texting reminders. I'm sure that would have helped.

House insurance. If the house insurer wants to make a claim against another party then it is up to them.

Bloody hell. You really think that people with bad mental health choose that?

I have experience of 3 similar situations and 2 are in my road. Its more common than you think.

1. Old chap next door to me had an care alarm in the house which was triggered. I was his named responder. I responded when called by alarm company. I could neither see him (even got a ladder out) or get an answer. He didn't answer his phone. I called 999. On arrival they asked me for permission to break in. I phoned his family who didn't live in the area and they gave permission. He was lying on the floor after a fall
2. another chap (only 60) 2 doors down. Kept himself to himself. First we knew of any issues was a fire engine outside and they gained entry whilst his elderly parents watched 😥 He wasn't there and was missing. I later found out he'd died after a heart attack and was unidentified in hospital, hence "missing"
3. Friend- NHS nurse made a home visit. No answer. Postie let her into the block of flats. She reached patients door and found it slightly ajar. He was lying on the floor and had been for several days. He died next day in hospital.

For everyone who thinks the NHS should neatly manage appointments (you'd spend all day rearranging because Mrs Cooper needed extra time etc etc). it's just not practical. You'd be phoning patients every single call and rearranging.

A home visit should be because the occupant cannot leave the house so you could reasonably expect them to be home.

For all we know the OP had received notification, but like other attempted communication, she was ignoring.

The NHS and fire brigade do not maliciously bully people into having blood tests by knocking their door down. That is an extremely odd line of thought

They do act to prevent harm and all emergency services will have attended where there is no response and a person is either very ill or dead.

It's unfortunate that OP felt she couldn't answer the door, the phone or attend her GP. All of these would have saved emergency services a lot of time and money.

It's also unfortunate that instead of using house insurance to fix the problem she intends to use ChatGP to chase the service whilst making wild claims of abuse against staff who were acting in good faith. The NHS will foot the bill of employing solicitors to respond and every staff member involved will write a statement and spend time worrying and rethinking. The next poorly patient might get ignored for fear of being sued.

I doubt OP will accept any responsibility for the turn of events but I hope she does reflect on the fact that people were concerned for her wellbeing not bullying her or any other emotive type comments. There are two sides to every story.

Yep

”allergic to chemicals”

This is not what happens when a welfare check takes place. If your building had an intercom system how did the nurse get in? She must have rang you first to be able to get to your door. For a welfare check she would have contacted the police in the first instance, and would only have done so if she thought the person inside was at risk of harm.
Do you have someone who you can call to stay with you OP because you sound very unwell.

This is the best response and nails it.

No, you would phone the police

I work in healthcare, we never cold call, we may say we aren’t sure what time exactly so expect us between 10-12. We would send a letter if no telephone response. There would have been communication about this in some form. We would escalate if we thought someone was at risk. We would be in papers if we walked away from someone ill the other side of the door. Completely unreasonable not to answer door. I wonder if “person” is deaf or can’t read because clearly there has been a communication breakdown.

I take it this person is you?

You should have got yourself to the blood test place. Instead of requesting someone travel all the way to your residence just for you.

You should have followed up the request for a blood test.

You should have opened the door.

You have created this entire situation.

Not once did you call the police.

It seems you are unable to live alone and perhaps need to be in supported care.

I think this was really bad luck. Some elements were perhaps poor practice, but really understandable shortcuts, if you like.

The nurse didn’t use the intercom because she/he usually visits people with severely limited mobility, quite likely to struggle to get to the intercom to answer. For most of her patients avoiding the intercom is helpful.

They called through the door, rang the phone and knocked on the door. Unfortunately a combination of your previous trauma and your hearing impediment made that useless.

If this had happened to me, I’d have dashed to a window and hung out check the front door to see what was wrong. I might text all my neighbours and get them to look for me- I certainly wouldn’t have opened the door to aggressive banging.

Unfortunately in the midst of the panic it’s hard to think clearly- you must have been terrified, OP.

Some suggestions for the future- get a sign on your door saying “text 01134 3434 for access”. Check with the surgery that they have that message and your disability noted on your records- the same way district nurses have the key safe code for patients who can’t answer the door.

I don’t know whether you can get compensation for your door.

I just want to know how bloody sturdy your door is, if a fireman was hammering and drilling on it for hours in order to attempt to get in? Fort Knox could learn a thing or two...we have all new doors (well, within a couple of years) yet I'm very certain that a well placed wallop or two from a fireman would open them.

Do you not have a peephole?

We don’t actually know that the nurse didn’t use the intercom because the OP is deaf. The nurse might have used it.

It seems really unlikely that the nurse

didn’t use the intercom
and
didn’t announce who she was when she first knocked
and
didn’t call the police and that the police also didn’t announce themselves

all before the fire brigade arrived to break the door down.

@logiccalls why not refer to yourself with first person pronouns? Makes it easier to read than they/them everywhere.

This part of your pp needs calling out though:
”Many/most, survivors of existential abuse become strong, stoic, and resilient as a result: They get a sense of proportion, so mental problems are, contrary to popular ideas, pretty rare in the more extreme and /or prolonged abuse survivors, than in those whose lives are pleasant other than the one day they encounter "something nasty in the woodshed" (to quote from Cold Comfort Farm) and become distressed that their once cosy world is not as secure as they had thought.
There's nothing to be mentally ill about, or depressed about, if nobody is hitting you or about to hit you or trying to smash the door in to hit you”

It’s not true in any part, and it’s really unpleasant to refer to domestic abuse survivors in that sneering tone referring Aunt Ada. Really unpleasant. Who are you to judge another’s experience of abuse just because it doesn’t fit your criteria for ‘extreme or prolonged’?

The part about mental problems among post-abuse populations is flat-out lies. You seem very prejudiced against people who have mental health problems and to want to suggest that such conditions are caused by a lack of “resilience” and “proportion”. They’re not.

Your posts make me think that contrary to your belief, you do in fact have quite severe mental health problems, probably CPTSD and quite possibly other things as well. The life you describe and the responses to life that you describe are really not the norm, and writing about yourself in the third person (or about a friend in this manner, which is very remote, as if you have no actual connection to the person you’re talking about) isn’t the norm either.

I do think you ABU and have no claim for the cost of your door. As pp said, you won’t get an appointment from the district team, it’s an ‘as soon as possible’. If you won’t answer to any attempt to contact you, you can’t complain that you haven’t been contacted. You’d made the appointment, why on earth didn’t you call through the letterbox to ask who was outside? You could then have rung police if it was someone intent on harming you.

Not even going near your description of bicarbonate of soda (NaHCO3) and vinegar (CH3COOH in H2O) as “not chemicals”.

This, all the dramatics and reference to “the person” is just ridiculous. But the threads def brought out the “SUE THE NHS!!” “GET THEM ALL FIRED!!” posters hasn’t it!