Blood test nurse with NO appointment got firemen to damage door.Who pays?

[logiccalls]

Someone who goes decades without any G.P. contact (being allergic to chemicals, and therefore never wanting to get pills) decided to get a private health MOT: The results were excellent, except for one which indicated it might be advisable to take a further blood test via the N.H.S.

The person was permanently disabled by a violent and stalking ex, therefore finds it difficult to get to a surgery, and asked them to send a home visiting nurse to do a blood test. This is a person made resilient by adversity, and keeping as healthy as possible, so with no history of mental problems or heart problems or anything else. (And even the requested blood test was resulting from a private MOT, which the NHS knew nothing about)

The GP has never been spoken to, just the receptionist, who promised to pass on the request for the blood test .

There was no further contact: NO appointment: No response: No email: No phone contact: No letter: No text.

Many weeks later, suddenly, a stranger had got into the block of flats, without using the intercom, and was agressively hammering on the flat door and trying to force the door handle to turn.

There was still no phone call, email or text. It could have been any intruder, inebriated, deranged or drugged. The occupant stayed silent.

The mobile phone rang, but with a witheld number, (which someone who has previously been stalked would of course never respond to.) Eventually, the stranger at the door went away. (There had been a parcel outside the door, before the stranger arrived, and as soon as she left, the occupant could at last open the door to retrieve it, and did so.)

An hour (?) later, a man was beating on the door as if to smash it in, and shouting. The occupant is deaf, but was obviously not going to open the door, to violent strangers, so again stayed silent. (But, because the parcel had been taken in, was clearly not lying unconscious on the floor for lack of a routine blood test, for which there had been NO appointment.)

The hammering on the door continued for hours, (?) and although the phone was constantly being rung, it was never used to send a text explaining there was any legitimate reason to attempt entry.

Later, it turned out the nurse had called the fire brigade, and it was their men taking over from her in battering the door. They then began to drill holes in the door.

The occupant had been unable to use the phone to try to get a lawyer, or to ring for any possible help from neighbours or the building caretaker. The 'number -witheld' calls were coming constantly.

With the flat's front door being destroyed, there was at last no choice for the occupant except to go to the door and call out "Who are you and what are you doing?"

A fireman explained who he was, and that there was a blood test nurse who had claimed that the occupant had "failed to attend an appointment for a blood test", which apparently he believed was justification for smashing the door. (?!)

a)There was NO such 'appointment'. b)The occupant had no idea who the nurse was, or the fireman was. c)Nobody texted.

But could it ever be reasonable to smash the door of someone for such a minor reason, for someone with no medical or mental illness history, and with evidence the person has taken in a parcel, so is obviously fit and well?

This is bullying and abuse of power, instigated by that extremely aggressive nurse, and enabled too readily by a fire brigade who were colluding in the constant phoning, yet never requesting a text should be sent, to a deaf occupant, to identify themselves or the blood test nurse, or to give information about the alleged "appointment".

(The medical records will not show much contact with the NHS, for decades, but there would be a note about deafness, so the fireman's statement that he had called out the word 'fireman' would not be justification to destroy a door.)

There is no house insurance. The front door is a security door and a fire door, so will be expensive to replace. Large holes have been drilled through it. Is it true, as the fireman suggested, that the NHS surgery will be liable to replace the front door?

If you'd been on the floor dying and she'd just gone away she'd have been dragged over the coals or sacked. I've had to call the police a few times in similar circumstances.
You must improve your communication.

Given the OPs comments about chemicals and tablets, I wonder if the ‘private health MOT’ was with some sort of alternative practitioner?

I have a private MOt annually and every year they advise me to get follow up blood tests for something on the NHS.

it'll be borderline results that can naturally fluctuate so they advise you re test in a number of weeks to see if they have returned to normal.

it won’t be anything serious

I have a private MOt annually and every year they advise me to get follow up blood tests for something on the NHS.

it'll be borderline results that can naturally fluctuate so they advise you re test in a number of weeks to see if they have returned to normal.

it won’t be anything serious

I’ve not read the whole thread only the OP first posting.
I'm a community nurse I’ve worked in three regions 2 big busy 1 small and quieter. Our HCSW do bloods in all cases they only do bloods on the housebound and we do not ever give times because they get held up/delayed and then patients ring the surgery saying the nurse was due 30 mins ago and they didn’t turn up. Also in my current job they also do all the personal care for all our palliative patients and they get priority over everything else and visits can take longer than expected for a whole variety of reasons. And as your meant to housebound when we turn up is largely irrelevant.
We always block our numbers because otherwise once people know it’s the “nurses number” they could call it for a whole variety of inappropriate reasons and we are not always able to answer, our patients must go through their GP and their call will be directed to the right person.
Lastly you have a history of stalking DV you failed to answer the front door when you should have been in because you were housebound and you didn’t answer the phone, this happens a lot and put the nurse calling in a difficult position, has the person gone out? Are they lying hurt? Have they fallen and been raked to A and E, if we know the patient this helps some “housebound” do go out or get taken out by their families often well ring the NOK. But ultimately if we have any doubt we will inevitably call the firebrigade because we don’t know if your lying collapsed on your bathroom floor (it happens at least twice a month).

Surely none of this would have happened if “who’s there” was the response to the first knock on the door?

How was ‘the occupant’ so unaware of who the people were? A nurse and a fireman would have uniforms and ID. They would be shouting through the door stating who they are. No way at all would they proceed to damage the door without making it very clear who they are and having major concerns for safety. It would be the police who would break a door anyway and to OPs question if the police damage your door in the course of a welfare check they will make it safe and fix it.

I am a MH professional who makes home visits and it is a very very high threshold to bash in someone’s door. We’d essentially have to believe they were dead or dying in there. We would try everything first to contact them, any registered contacts and look for signs of life. It’s a police decision whether to do a welfare check and in this era of their ‘right care right person’ policy they will very rarely agree to do so. I don’t believe this happened or not as stated.

The NHS should refuse to do blood tests related to a private episode of care.

If GPs had to pay for welfare checks, no-one would get a welfare check, and people lying unconscious, would die.

Likewise concerned neighbours or family members would hesitate to ask for a welfare check if they were going to have to pay for a destroyed front door or it turned out there wasn't a welfare issue.

There is without a doubt another side to this story!! The ‘person’ sounds too perfect and apparently did absolutely nothing wrong in the situation, I’m just not sure about that….

I do see what you mean but the other argument is early identification of a disorder or disease that can be easily treated before it becomes chronic and causes the NHS and the patient more serious and expensive problems

eta- I never bother getting the advised follow ups anyway because it’s such a hassle with the GP

This is a very helpful post and I hope OP can reflect on what was happening on the other side of the door

its clearly an unfortunate event. The nurse will have missed a lot of other appointments so other vulnerable people have been made to wait. The fire brigade wasted their time. And you wasted your own time

OP I understand not opening the door or answering the phone but you should have shouted out to them. You could have said ‘go away I’m calling the police’ and they would have understood what was going on

Someone who goes decades without any G.P. contact (being allergic to chemicals, and therefore never wanting to get pills)

I can't get past the first line here.
So you're saying that this person has never seen a GP for decades or taken a drug in their lives as they are 'allergic to chemicals'.

They regard drugs for medical conditions as 'chemicals'?
What would they do if they had a serious illness which needed treatment?
How do they know they can't use medication?

If this person was really allergic to 'chemicals' they would not be alive or they'd live in a bubble because' chemicals' are in fact in every living substance.

I hope this person gets the help they need for their mental health and their attitude to drugs because they are making decisions based on a lack of understanding.

It would probably be helpful if they explained that to patients. I'm thinking about a relative of mine who is housebound and spends the majority of their time upstairs. They basically just don't answer the door unless they're expecting someone because it takes so long to get there. They do have a keysafe but if they didn't know someone was going to be turning up at any given time they wouldn't have given the code. Seems like an inefficient system.

I feel like your posts read as though there's an undercurrent of something that maybe has been picked up on and IS on your notes. Meaning that they could well be very justified in calling for a welfare check.

House calls are generally for those who are house bound. Blood tests for the sound of body and mind are done at the surgery. You requested a house call which means they assumed you are housebound by either mental or bodily disability.

You then wouldn’t answer the phone or door leading them to assume that you were dead or in danger because you’re supposedly housebound but not answering your house door.

IME of family members who had blood tests due to being housebound, they are told the day the nurse will come but not a precise time.

She could explain that when making the appointment

Or alternatively the private MOTs could be generating thousands of NHS blood tests from perfectly healthy people for no reason, using resources that could be better spent on screening services/GP appointments where disorders are much more likely to be identified.

And if a private MOT raises a needed test then it should be provided by the private provider.

Unless or until someone beats on the door without appointment and without saying who they are or why they are so desperate to smash the door in to get at you. That is not good.

So why did this person not ask who was at the door when someone knocked persistently?

Or why don't they have a door camera?
Given their extreme reluctance to answer the door they need a door camera!

The responsibility to know who is on the other side of the door is that person's.
This is something that they are living with day to day so why on earth dont they do the sensible thing and have a camera / door ring?

You've had a hard time here.

But thats because you're exaggerating. The whole thing was probably bad enough without the exaggeration for posters to be on your side and agree with you. But the embellishments to the story have lost your audience.

The fire service would not spend hours banging on the door. They are trained to get in as fast as possible. And they simply dont have the time to be stood there banging for hours.

I'm sorry that this happened and that you feel like you have to over egg what happened. Probably the best thing you can do is get the door sorted and move on. Your home insurance may pay out.

The nurse may have bypassed the intercom because she was already in the block seeing someone else.

I agree that it's debatable. It's often hard to mix private and NHS like this because not all private blood tests are accurate especially if some are finger prick tests for a tiny amount , rather than drawing blood with a syringe.

It would be far better for this person to have made an appt with their GP to talk over the blood test result in person and seek advice.

OP or whoever this is needs a doorbell camera.

If they won't answer the door to strangers they need to come up with a practical solution to know who is there!

The person has escalated towards the final result at every opportunity.

Thinking not going to the GP for years makes them uniquely healthy - it’s normal between early childhood and elderly adulthood to need very few appointments. Nobody would have looked and started analysing patterns - they were just dealing with the situation in front of them - a housebound person not communicating with them.

You keep saying they have no mental health problems but you write as if they do. When they wrote to the GP for the blood test it is very likely that they came across as vulnerable.

In fact, they have specificity told them they are vulnerable in order to get an appointment meant for housebound people. Housebound people are usually at home unless admitted to hospital. Irregardless of the rights and wrongs of them not giving advance warning of an appointment it was reasonable to expect that the person would be behind the door. It would be appropriate to be concerned about a housebound person not responding over several hours. They think they are wonderfully healthy but also so unhealthy they are housebound.

They didn’t answer the phone or the door or even shout out.

They are saying deafness meant they couldn’t respond but they can hear well enough to hear the door and they know someone is phoning. They think everyone connected with the doctor should know they are deaf despite never going and still being to do things a hearing person can do like talk on the phone.

The person could have used the phone but is pretending the calls coming in so frequently stopped them. This isn’t a thing. The person could have called neighbours or the police. The person could have shouted through the walls or out of the window for help. They person could have shouted out to the people banging to fuck off. The person sat like a child being taking to the nutcracker for the first time - rapt and waiting for the show to start.

Getting a fireman to drill through the door is a fucking big deal. It’s not something a district nurse can just get because she’s an arsehole.

The person is putting far too much emphasis on leaving a bag in the hall. It’s not acceptable for a healthcare professional or fireman to leave someone dying/dead in a flat because at some point a possibly completely unrelated bag has been moved by a possibly completely unconnected person.

You hid. They thought you were dead or dying. They did their best.