Self representing at a fact finding hearing

[Iristhebutterfly]

My allegations of domestic abuse are going to a fact finding hearing and I am hoping he gets a finding made of coercive control amongst others. I am currently self representing. How important is it to have a barrister at such a hearing or is it something I could represent myself successfully at? The cost just looks so expensive but I guess the outcome is important. If this finding is made how will it impact future child contact decisions? At the moment he is only allowed video contact 3x a week.

If you are comfortable representing yourself, go for it. People can and do successfully represent themselves at such hearings.

@IristhebutterflyBarristers don’t all cost the same. A very young just qualified one is much cheaper than a long established one. What does your solicitor recommend? What barristers do they use and what price have they quoted? Of course you can self represent but it can be stressful.

Thanks. I'm self representing currently so don't have a solicitor and wouldn't be able to afford/ justify their extortionate fees for essentially admin that I can do myself. My query is about whether a direct access barrister would be worth it just for fact finding. Or whether coming up with a list of questions myself is likely to hold enough weight to get allegations proved. Presumably the court would allocate someone else to ask them for me or the judge would, rather than me having to question him myself?

@Iristhebutterfly No idea! The best barristers are in chambers and many are not direct access and expect a bundle from their instructing solicitors. They cost money for a reason. They are better at doing the job than you are after years of training. Why should they be cheap? I’d carry on and see how you get on.

A fact finding hearing is extremely important in determining child contact and in my experience judges err on the side of caution when it comes to findings of fact. If you can afford a barrister I would 100% get one.

There is a saying, OP, that the lawyer who acts for himself has a fool fo a client. It’s almost impossible, though people do manage it, to keep a calm, clear and objective head when involved in stressful and personal matters. Particularly here when the issue is coercion

Asking questions doesn’t prove anything. What are you going to do with the answers? The court won’t allocate anyone to act for you. The judge won’t act as your advocate because that’s not his / her job. You will also have to make submissions on the evidence to the judge.

I’m puzzled why you refer to the hearing as “just” a fact finding hearing. It’s extremely important and central to your case.

I don’t know how close you are to the hearing but you could contact FRU the Free Representation Unit

If you represent yourself, you advocate for yourself. There’s no one doing it for you. So yes, you would be questioning him. This is why a barrister makes sense but you think they just do expensive admin………

Thanks. I thought that the court allocated a QLR to ask questions for litigants in person but that I would have to provide the list of questions? And the answers would be interpreted by the judge.

I haven't referred to it as 'just' a fact finding hearing but asked whether I should get representation for just that part of proceedings given it is the most important. I have managed fine as a litigant in person at the first 3 hearings and written the first 4 statements myself, and got an interim NMO/PSO/OO in place. I will put the stott schedule and next statement together and additional evidence together myself and the bundle.

I thought, where there's domestic abuse allegations that the court will appoint you a QLR..qualified legal repesenative as it isn't ok for you to have to cross examine your alleged perpetrator.
In all honesty, fact finding hearings are so tricky id advise a barrister if you can afford one.

Edit. You sound very clever and knowledgeable to have done so much on your own thus far. The court knows people have to self represent so if you feel ok doing that then do so. I've not observed a fact finding hearing with LIPs so cant comment on how it actually 'looks' with a QLR.

You may be entitled to a QLR but they don't do anything above asking the questions.

If you can even get a QLR appointed. In my experience they never find one and the judge asks your questions.

my advice. Get a barrister

I’ve worked in the family courts in private law for eight years and if I was ever in the situation of being a party to proceedings, I could represent myself for some aspects, but there’s two hearings I would do all I could to get representation for - a finding of fact hearing and the final hearing. While the courts are tasked with doing their best to remove any disadvantage for litigants in person, in reality I do think it makes things very difficult especially if the other party has representation. And yes you’re supposed to have a QLR to put the questions on your behalf but getting one is easier said than done in much of the country and the judge may well end up asking your questions if you’re in person.

Hi OP, I’m in the exact same situation as you. Feel free to PM me. I think I’d get a DA barrister if you can afford it but I am in a similar situation that I cannot. I also question that if the allegations can be proven, they will be by the evidence. The questions are for the QLR as you mention.

Hello @Darkershadeofpink and @Iristhebutterfly did you end up being a LIP in the FFH? Found your thread as I may face the same position.

I’m already a LIP after spending an enormous amount previously. I think I’m not doing a bad job and am honestly disillusioned with some of what a lawyer/barrister may do better and at what cost but seeing these posts is scaring me.

Hello ML42, I have prepared most of paperwork myself and got a direct access barrister. I decided to draft as much as I could as no one else frankly is in my head and experienced it like me. But I feel I messed up some documents by not knowing some rules and how to present things. Some evidence seems inadmissible even though I thought it would be important. I am finding it retraumatising but like not being ripped off and the agency to do things myself actually. It’s hard. I would get a DA barrister for the fact finding. The closer it gets the more I started to feel I could not present it all and do the cross examination wuestions for QLR and how woyld they ask them. I also feel this visceral relief at a professional kind of taking over. If that makes sense.

@Darkershadeofpink thanks for answering
looks like even direct access would be close to 10k though
I’ve already spent 40k on legal before and sole provider for the kids no assets, nothing…right now praying they don’t go with a FFH just because it seems like an impossible situation to be in.

Message me privately if you like. I can’t share my case but can give you an idea of fees for someone very reasonably priced I am using. I agree, it’s insanely expensive when you are the victim of abuse and it goes down this track. I would say though that mine is starting to pull together for me. Have a full time judge now eho has got the measure of the ex already I can sense. And all this stress and workload is starting to feel it will be worth it. I can share what sort of places I’ve gone to for help.

Op what are you hoping for re child arrangements? Remember this it’s criminal court. So they might agree yes ok sounds like he was coercive. But how does that link to how often he can see the children? It might mean that they think ‘ok let’s remove contact with her, dad can collect from school on Friday and drop back on Monday’ unless you have evidence there is risk to the kids? A lot of social media I follow constantly says if a ma abuses the mother then he is abusing his children too, but family courts don’t see to see it that way.
be prepared that dad will accuse you of parental alienation and some judges to listen to this. A book called ‘how to annihilate a narcissist in the family court’ is helpful

In my case an awful judge decided at the pre hearing review that a fact finding is no longer needed and he listed the case straight for a final hearing on child arrangements. Despite disputed allegations of domestic abuse, the 3 previous orders all being towards fact finding, Scott schedule had been prepared and then refined ready for it (I had got a DAB to help with it so at my own expense). CAFCASS had raised a 16A referral and it had been escalated to circuit judge level, then when she was off sick for the next hearing someone else took it and handed it back to the DJ level and they bulldozed the case.

It was the 5th different judge we had had, he admitted he hadn't actually read the relevant statements, told me that the domestic abuse was 'arguments' and not relevant to the children, that it won't have affected the children that much witnessing it due to them being young (my 4yo still talks about things she saw a year on), and that he thinks the only relevant issue is alcohol misuse. He also said I wasn't allowed to appeal his decision.

How on earth final child arrangements can possibly be made in these circumstances is beyond me. CAFCASS aren't being allowed to do a section 7 report either. I emailed them and they told me they are no longer involved and that I should refer back to the local authority. The whole point in taking it to court was to avoid local authority involvement...

Long story short I now have a DAB lined up for final hearing but am terrified how it will go. She is an experienced barrister who also works as a judge and has said she cannot believe no fact finding is going ahead.

For now I am hoping for him to have supervised contact only at a contact centre or trusted third party. There is no way he is safe to look after them unsupervised let alone overnight. He has tried the parental alienation trick already and posted online about me alienating and accusing me of being abusive (one of many breaches of his nmo).

Witnessing DA has a huge impact on children's brain development and the children are affected. The eldest still talks about him always shouting at me and that she was scared, and saw him smashing things up etc as he has no emotional regulation. He would also shout/swear at the kids if they e.g. cried as babies, and would manipulate the elder one such as telling her she had to choose between parents and decide which one of us should leave. He has been physically aggressive with the toddler and pushed her over. Not to mention the recurrent disappearances when he was meant to be looking after them, and running off in public whenever he got anxious, and leaving a 3 year old shut in her bedroom for the afternoon unsupervised, crying asking for a drink having wet herself, when he was 2 floors away drinking and 'working'. He locked me and the kids in the garden, was drink driving with the 3yo in the car, and has sky high hair strand and peth results for alcohol. I found him cosleeping with the baby several times after 30 units of alcohol etc. He instructed men to enter the house on his behalf during the occupation order which put the kids at risk also. The list goes on.

For the judge to claim it is just 'arguments' and doesn't impact the children it just absurd. They are physically and emotionally unsafe in his care.

What I am looking for is for him to stop drinking long term, to show some insight into his behaviour and the impact it has had, and to do some work around emotional regulation and show reliability before he then has them unsupervised.

you will be allocated a QLR (qualified legal representative) for free if you are litigant in person. i know because i was in the same situation. he got one as well. you aren’t allowed to ask each other questions where there are allegations of DV.
mine was great and actually did give me some guidance and advice and came to the court in person. his turned up on the day via video link and was absolutely useless. this was pre fact finding and for reasons i won’t go into it didn’t end up progressing to that.
in terms of what the CAO looks like will really be informed by the judges views from the evidence. as he is only having video contact at the minute it would likely have to take a dramatic swing in his favour for it to change to face to face contact especially with the recent changes in the law around presumed contact.
i would also research a 91(14) order. cafcass asked the court for one with my support. people think it’s only for repeated applications but it can be requested if the judge agrees future litigation isn’t in the children’s best interests. even if cafcass don’t run with it, you still can as litigant in person. it’s been a godsend for us as it runs until my children are adults and has made their father have to communicate better about contact while still protecting us from harm.