Ex gf won’t let the father have the kids stay over

[Pigmum86]

My partner has 4 y/o twins with his ex girlfriend. Social services were involved due to them both being drug users and the children were fostered for a couple of years. Both parents are now clean and the children are back living with mum and social services are no longer involved.
my partner has the children on a Saturday 10-4, and his mum has them the same amount of hours on a Thursday (he can’t have them then as he’s working full time). He would love to have them more and during the last social services meeting he said this and his ex said that was fine and she’s waiting to hear from him.
He said a few months ago he’d like them to stay overnight and she said no they are needy in the night, but the kids sometimes stay at their grandparents and aunties house (her side).
He's said he’d like to take them away for a few days this summer within the UK but again she’s said no, using the same reason about sleeping.
He has always paid child care to her and does everything correctly.
What are his rights?
Thank you

He can try to take her to court if he wants more time or a formal custody arrangement, but given the amount of upheaval already I’m not sure if it would be in their best interests for more.

If he really wanted them more he would have arranged Mediation by now.

Court or mediation.

he has a right to apply for increased access - it would be cheaper to try mediation first.

Personally I think his best approach would be to work on building trust with his ex first - 10am to 4pm is only one meal. I mean has he even ever brushed their teeth and hair?
Offered to help with laundry? Done their phonics practise with them or taken them to a library to choose some books? He needs to show he can be a father not just turn up and demand to take them on holidays.

Could he try having them until say 7pm on a Saturday so he does tea, bath and gets them in pjs and then takes them home to mum and bed?

He has them once a week for 6 hours. It’s a huge leap to them start asking for overnight. I’ll bet he’s never done a single piece of their laundry, had to get them ready to leave the house, I doubt he’s even once got them ready and taken them to school.

A more reasonable request would be that he builds up contact, starting with having them an additional one evening a week where he collects them from school, he gives them their tea, helps with homework, reading, etc and gets them back to their mum for 7pm and maybe even helps with their bedtime routine at home.

Given the level of chaos and trauma the children have already endured, I would suggest he start by asking for more non-overnight time. Keep showing that he is consistent and sober. Stop asking about traveling with the children as that should not be under consideration.

Maybe one weeknight until bedtime prep time and both Saturday and Sunday during the day every other weekend. Eventually it will make sense to add an overnight on that weekend, but right now the children should not have to make more changes.

I disagree about the building up. He’s their father and he should have them half the time if he wants them, provided it doesn’t impact schooling and logistics don’t work.

She was a drug user too, so what determines that she’s a better parent than him?

First, he should find a Mediator and attempt to do that. if that doesn’t work, he can get the C 100 form and pay around £250 to the court and he get a hearing and let the judge decide.

How can he have done all the extra things if she doesn’t let him have time with the children? No one suddenly knows how to parent, they figure it out.

She will have been given a huge amount of guidance, help & supervision to get back to having her children full time. They were not handed back overnight and it takes them time to settle.

If dad was particularly arsed about doing the same then he’s had plenty of time to ask for and fight for that before they even came back to mum.

She was a drug user too, so what determines that she’s a better parent than him?

The fact that she’s done the work required for SS to place the children back in her full time care, while dad only got 6 hours a week.

Your partner needs to take a step back and think “not what are my rights?” but “what course of action is in my twins best interests?”

Jumping from 6 hours once a week to overnights and holidays at 4 years of age may be what he wants, but what his children need is a phased build up of care.

That may mean (like many women do) thinking about flexible working during the week and having extended access at weekends.

In the time period you cited he won’t have ever done basic tasks like toothbrushing, bath time, getting dressed etc.

As pp’s have suggested he would be better off asking to have them longer on a Saturday so he can cater for lunch, dinner and get them bathed and ready in pj’s for bed to drop off at their mum’s house (and if she is agreeable bedtime story and tucked in at her house) . Then eventually if they are comfortable one overnight with him and see how it goes.

In short he’s got to demonstrate he can parent and not just babysit for a few hours or play “fun Dad with no responsibilities”. During his time with them show he can engage in activities that help their development and understand not just how to comfort them but discipline them appropriately as well.

I’m a full time single dad.

You guys make it sound like brushing teeth, running a bath and doing some laundry is a massive challenge. It’s not.

My child came for over nights when they were significantly younger and didn’t bat an eyelid.

I think you’re being overly precautious. You’re also assuming they have a nice co-parenting relationship.

Go to family court and get a standard NRP order made up. You could probably offer the moon on a stick and it would never be enough.

The children have only been back to their mum for the past year and social services off the scene for two months. The courts decided equal care for them but as the mother is unemployed, my partner agreed they could live with her full time and he can see them weekends and a day in the week. She decides the amount of time he can have (10-4) so please don’t make out he’s playing part time dad. He would like them as much as possible and to stay overnight but she won’t allow it!

You say the courts decided equal care. If there is a CAO and your partner's ex is refusing to comply with it, he needs to go back to court to get it enforced. If there is no CAO, he needs to get one.

Wow, harsh! Social services have only been out the picture two months, and the children back with their mum a year. He’s always on to his ex about having them more and having them stay over but she won’t allow it.

The court said equal responsibility but the father thought it best for them to live with her since she’s unemployed and he’s in full time employment plus works overtime. They agreed equal care but she won’t allow extra days or to stay overnight.

He needs to try harder before demanding overnights imo. I’m all for fathers having children a large chunk of time but it doesn’t work in all cases. These children are only 4 and have been in foster care for years, they need to develop a home and a bond with their parents.
6 hours a week is the bare minimum. He could be taking them out for tea in the week and just generally sewing them more often.
They need to be comfortable in their home before being moved around based on what parents want.

He wants that but she won’t allow extra time!

A judge decided equal care, but he's placed the majority of responsibility on her to suit his workload?

He can't expect his ex to pick up all the slack when it suits him, and then hand over the kids when he deems fit. Especially when they are just settling in to being back with their Mum.

He either takes his court ordered responsibility seriously, or he doesn't.

Instead of harassing his ex he should go back to court, and stick to the arrangements this time.

There is a world of difference between your children who - I assume - are being parented well by two parents who love them and put them first despite being not together and these children who in the first 3 years of their life were:-

Neglected by their drug addicted parents
Taken into foster care
Probably shunted round a bit in foster care
Sent back to live with their (now recovering) mum.

I agree, my point was the really bizarre reasons why overnights couldn't start relating to bathing, teeth cleaning and some other strange, insane reasons.

As for the bottom remarks, assuming all things are equally bad, why is one parent monopolising the time? Dad should be far move involved with school pick ups and drop offs etc if theres not much to choose between their degeneracy, albeit recovered.

They’re starting school this September but are currently at nursery.
she won’t even give him the address of where they live, let alone the nursery. Pick up is from a car park near to where she lives!

Maybe I was a bit blunt but there’s a lot going on here, far more than two parents who have split amicably and want to ci-parent.

And it’s you asking for advice on having the DC more, how motivated actually is he? I think what I’m trying to get at is that you are quite vulnerable in this relationship. Do you know if his attends Narcotics Anonymous and if not, what therapy has he had so far? What’s he said about NA? Has he ever had any other addictions like gambling or drink? Does he have any other DC?

As for his ex not revealing their address, was there any DV involved? No matter what’s been said about his previous relationship, I would for a a Claire’s Law request, just to rule it out.

I’m pleased that the DC are back with their DM and see their DF regularly but they have had huge trauma in their lives already and this whole situation is going to require very careful handling, on everyone’s part.

Does he use a shared parenting app already to communicate with his Ex? If not maybe you could suggest to him
to have a look at one of the Court approved ones like OurFamilyWizard.

These apps have benefits for both parents and help to maintain a constructive relationship between the Parents.

Do you know of there is a Child Arrangements Order in place? If not, maybe ask him why not? If there is one and the Mum isn’t sticking to her side does he know why? Are the DC struggling a lot with being back with their Mum? Would she be ok with him having the DC for a little longer, so maybe asking for the contact to be extended by one hour for a few weeks at first to see how the DC cope?

Has he been in touch with the school so that he receives communications from them about things like Parent’s Evenings, School Reports and Nativity Plays?

Yes he goes to NA meetings and has just had his 2 years clean keyring. No DV involved and no other addictions.
he’s asked about having access to their nursery log in to see what they’re up to and she said she would ask them but nothing has come of that yet. He wants to be there their first day of school and be as involved as possible but she always makes it difficult.

Just file a c100 and go back to court. You probably know things wont change. The longer this strange status quo continues the worse it will be and will cause acrimony. Better to have structured court ordered time so everyone knows where they stand. Try and future proof it to avoid having to go back.

Its great that he’s going to NA meetings and he’s clean and that there are no other addictions.

I would still do the Claire’s Law request. His previous relationship seems like it was disastrous and it’s extremely rare for one party to be completely without blame.

Did he say if he has a Child Arrangements Order in place?

And is there a reason that he’s expecting his ex to sign him up for Nursery updates and he’s not approached them himself?