What’s family court like?

[Roxietrees]

Ex is taking me to court to try and get more than 50/50 time with our 5 yo DS. Does anyone know what it’ll be like? I’m very anxious about it. He’s trying to paint me as an unfit mother using historic (1 year+ ago) evidence of my bad mental health (which was bad a few years ago) but I am now fine and perfectly capable of being a good mother to DS. He’s likely going to use evidence from Whatsapp, which is, to be honest, pretty damning. He was emotionally abusive and controlling, but I have no evidence of this. He just wants to play happy families with his new partner, who, as far as I can see will be doing most of the childcare if he wins. Will I be cross examined about my MH? It’s in the past and I really wish I didn’t have to talk to strangers about it. Will he be able to bring in witnesses? Is it like what you see on tv in criminal courts where you’re cross-examined by a barrister who rips your credibility to pieces? Is anyone else other than the two parents, legal teams and judge allowed in the room? Thank you for any advice

It's nothing like on tv and you're unlikely to cross-examined. A lot of it is based on reports (so they may ask for records from your GP) and a cafcass officer will talk to both of you and your child. They hope you will be able to come to an agreement which the court can also agree to.

The magistrates/judge have to agree to evidence being included. They may not be very interested in your ex's print-off of whatsapp messages, however unfortunate they are.

It is stressful and really unpleasant, but not generally as dramatic as on tv.

Thanks for your advice. I wasn’t aware that cafcass would also talk to our child, I thought he was too young to have his wishes considered? Or is it more to get an understanding of what his life is like with both parents? Would they talk to him at only 5? What would they ask him?

I'm not a lawyer and my children were older. You would probably find useful information on the CAFCASS website. I think it's called 'wishes and feelings' - they might talk to your son about his life with both of you to get a sense of how he feels. I found CAFCASS very helpful and appropriate.

Please don’t worry. You won’t be cross examined. The hearings are generally really short and there isn’t a lot of time to delve into things, certainly not any cross examinations.

The crucial but for you to counter-argue with him, is that (I assume) you have 50/50 and at no point did he prevent you from having child 50/50. If he had such grave concerns about your suitability as a parent, why didn’t he do anything then? Where is the evidence that he tried to protect your child from harm (if that is his angle). I assume all of his evidence is historic?

It's not an interogation, so don't worry. It's all very relaxed, they just ask questions of what they enjoy, what sort of things they like at school. They have ways to get a good understanding of the situation. Sometimes they'll ask the child to draw a picture of their family. There's lots that can be interpreted from a child's drawing. It also opens up a discussion about the people in the picture.

Formal wishes and feelings chats don't happen until the child is older. It won't be happening to your child at 5.

Family Courts and CAFCASS aren't stupid, they hear the mental health accusations a lot. They're more than prepared for reading between the lines. As long as you've been upfront with all past issues, and he's not able to unearth a huge curved ball of a situation, you're able to fight him head-on. Ultimately the Court and CAFCASS will be working in the best interest of the child. They don't always get it right, but more often than not they do.

If he has a barrister, the op will be questioned. It’s not judge led. The court could also order a fact finding hearing regarding allegations of abuse and mental health issues.

Yes his evidence is all historic, but not THAT historic- I’m confident that all messages relating to my MH are at least a year old, but much more likely 2 years old +. Would that count as historic do you think? Unfortunately I have no way of checking as when I found out he was planning to take me to court in January I deleted our entire history of WhatsApp communication with no back-up. I know that sounds like I was trying to hide something! And on reflection it was really bloody stupid, but I really wasn’t trying to hide anything, I was just so upset. Do you think this, if it’s revealed, will look like I was trying to hide something? I have no idea how to get the messages back, it’s probably not possible

And yes, that his is angle “trying to protect DS from harm”. I agree it’s a weak argument- if he was genuinely concerned 1. Why didn’t he do something about it 2 years ago when my MH was genuinely bad (or anytime since) and 2. If he was that concerned he should be asking for full custody not just to “have him a bit more”. I just hope a judge sees it that way

Thanks for your advice. Do you know what a fact finding hearing would involve? I assume getting access to my medical records. Anything else?

They may ask a psychologist to speak to you and write a report. This would include looking at your medical history.

If your mental health was evidentiably poor a year or two ago and there were no significant concerns about your parenting then (eg raised by/with school, social services involvement), and if your mental health is better now and there are no concerns about your parenting now, it will be hard for him to make an argument that you are an unfit parent. Lots pf parents struggle with their mental health and prioritise their children. They can be better, more empathetic parents because of it.

What do you want? Do you think the current arrangement is in your child's best interests? Do you think your child is sufficiently happy and well-cared for at both houses? That can be a really powerful argument - you're not engaging in tit-for-tat, you think he's a good dad, these changes are not necessary. Obviously, if you do have concerns you can put them forwards and ask for them to be considered.

I would advise getting some legal support if you are able. It's helpful to have someone who can speak the right language and understands how to behave and what is likely. It will take away a lot of stress from you; however, it is expensive.

Try not to worry too much. It’s really common for abusive/controlling men to make accusations of poor mental health in this way (especially because they’ve usually caused a situation where there is some truth to this), and the courts are wise to it - unless there is up to date very credible evidence of your having extremely severe problems with your mental health it’s unlikely to make the courts decide you are not a “good enough” mother. His whole argument is weakened as has been said by the fact that he has been ok with 50/50 up til now and also he isn’t even now asking for sole custody from what you’re saying.

Don’t worry about deleting the WhatsApp’s, it’s not the sort of court where they’re going to seize your phones and examine the evidence etc, plus it’s not particularly damning that you deleted your conversation with your ex anyway. He probably will quote some of your previous messages but the courts are likely to give it short shrift if they are historic (and historic means not ongoing right now, basically) and if there is evidence from a GP or psychiatrist that your mental health is now stable etc. The courts may or may not feel such a letter is necessary though your legal team may ask you to get one in advance to help shut this argument down. The courts would need a VERY good reason to make changes to the status quo of 50/50. It will be ok.

Family court is nothing like what you see on TV; the depiction of court on TV seems to be based on criminal court (and Crown Court, at that) which is a very different system.

Depending on where you are, the room can look slight similar as the magistrates/judge tends to sit on a slightly raised platform, but it doesn't feel as formal as criminal court. Think of it more as a board meeting, but with a different layout. There will only be (usually) magistrates or judge, you and your ex (and any legal reps if you have them), and a few administrator type people who take notes and may advise. Are you aware you can request special measures so you can have a screen if you want one?

I have worked with hundreds of cases in the family court (where domestic abuse has been alleged), and it's unusual for the perpetrator NOT to raise mental health as a cornerstone of their case. Usually mental health that has utterly nothing to do with the (usually mother's) ability to parent. They'll wheel out historic postnatal depression, anxiety or something like that, as if the court are going to judge one parent more worthy than the other.

If mental ill health is raised, the court will want to know if it means you are a risk to your child. That's all they're interested in. And they won't take the other party's word for it; they will go to fact finding if they feel they need to, which may mean a report from health services, or if there isn't one, may mean they ask for an evaluation. Like others have said, they're likely to ask why he hasn't raised concerns earlier, why he hasn't made a social services referral if he's so concerned (rather implies neglect on his part if its that worrying), and why he thinks you'd only be a risk 50% of the time.

Basically, it's a tactic they see every day and they are pretty good at spotting it and dealing with it.

Further down the line if it goes to fact finding, they CAN cross examine, but it's not like the criminal court process. It just means they can ask questions about your statement and challenge some aspects. It has to be done by someone neutral though, your ex won't be able to do it.

Ultimately the court will only want to get to the bottom of whether there are any risks to the child and what is in their best interests. It's not about judging and punishing one of you other the other.

In answer to what I want - I believe he is a good father to an extent. However there have been some incidents of reckless behaviour on his part that have landed DS in a&e a handful of times (for a minor injury caused by ex not properly supervising him allegedly). I believe he is also trying to alienate me as DS told me he told him I wasn’t his “real mummy”. But how do I prove this? I can prove the a&e but not the alienation. I believe DS is happy with the current arrangement and has a strong bond with both of us. However, I do already have a solicitor and they have mentioned that I may have a chance of full custody if I applied for it. I know the solicitor is the expert but I very much doubt I’d get full custody based on the above. If I could get it then I’d absolutely like to try - I wouldn’t want his father not to be in his life at all of course, but if I had “main responsibility” or however it’s phrased I would be much more comfortable with this. However if I apply for full custody would this look bad? Eg. Would it look like I was trying to alienate ex from DS?

@1clavdivs is spot on in my opinion.
I'd not try for full custody unless you have serious concerns about safety, it won’t make you look favourable to the court if you’re trying to stop contact with Dad.
They all try to make the mental health claims and agree that he shows he’s neglectful if he’s raising it two years later, I’d not worry about that one now.
As for him saying stuff to your DC, they all do that one too, the kids see through that shite in time and stop trusting everything else they say.
I was told that kids vote with their feet at 11; this is true.

I think when you talk about 'full custody' what you are talking about is residency, where the child lives with you but has regular contact with him? If you don't want the 50/50 he's asking for, you just have to highlight why you feel its not in the best interests of the child (if that's what you believe). The court are keen to preserve the 'status quo' so the children are not disrupted as much as possible. If he's suddenly asking for 50/50 residency after a couple of years, that's a big disruption. The court are likely to want him to explain why it would be a risk to the children NOT to disrupt the status quo. If he can't show that they are at risk by allowing things to remain as they are, the court are unlikely to support much of a change.

I suspect he knows this, and that this is why he is looking for something to support his argument that the children would be at risk if the court did not disrupt the current pattern. He's using the common tactic of mental health. It's very unconvincing though, the way he's doing it.

My exh turned up with ring binders full of my text messages... Judge wasn't interested...

I'm not a lawyer, just a parent who has been through court.

If he is starting court proceedings, I think you might as well ask for what you think is best. Your solicitor will know how to phrase it. If you think it is your child's best interests to llive with you, you can ask the court to consider it. It's not going to look bad as long as your reasons are reasonable. If you've stuck to 50/50 and made it happen, you're obviously not trying to alienate his dad.

But if his dad wants a court to decide where your child should live, you should tell them what you think and why, and see what they say.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Hi Roxietrees I've NC for this post, I've just been through family court & have the final hearing coming up.

Something to be aware of, in case you aren't, is the metal detectors at the entrance of the court. I wasn't expecting this & it just made things a little more stressful for me! I kept getting beeped & I was standing there babbling 'My bra maybe? Buckle on my boots?' & they weren't responding, just telling me to walk back through (next time I'm going to try to wear no metal!)

Me & my McKenzie friend were separated from my ex by some doors in the waiting room, & we couldn't see each other. The court usher (I think that's what they are called) came by a few times saying things like 'We won't be long' & 'Phew! It's warm today, isn't it' which helped in a weird way as I didn't feel so much 'I am the one on trial, everybody is judging me' if that makes sense, but like I was welcome to be there.

Once the usher took us in, it was myself & my McKenzie friend, then the screen in between us (which you just ask for & they wheel it in) then my ex & his McKenzie friend, sat in a line on similar to a school table, you know, table for 2, then screen, table for 2.

Square room, then opposite us was 2 more '2' tables in a line, the judge & a second person sat opposite us, the other seats were empty, then there was a final '2' table which made like an 'L' at the end of their row. On this table sat a woman who was writing notes (the woman writing notes had already come & said hello in the waiting room also & she asked me if I was ok before we started)

It was much less formal than I thought it would be, it was just like a chat really, we all had to leave whilst they made their decision, & we were again sat separately. This part for me was awful as it lasted over an hour (apparently this is very unusual & it was just torturous tbh, I was swinging between all these scenarios in my mind of 'Why is it taking so long?!')

Cafcass had one chat with each parent & didn't speak to our kids, we do have a Social worker though so she's written our reports & she will be at our final hearing.

My McKenzie friend told me that we weren't allowed to chat to each other in there, but they did let us have a little chat near the end, & didn't tell us not to, when I was struggling to answer a question (but there really wasn't half of the questions that I thought they would ask)

At the end of the hearing, the judge said some words to me about 'I know that things havn't gone the way that you wanted' etc which was kind of her. We were then ushered to a private room, as my ex was rushed back through the doors away from me, which I appreciated as I didn't want my ex to see me so upset. And we had this room for as long as we needed.

I won't go into the ins & outs as your case will be different to mine, but I hope that this post provides a little reassurance to you, about what the inside of the family court is like.

Sending you strength for this

@Roxietrees You have had some great advice. Get legal representation if you can because they can get to the bottom of whether his claims are really beneficial to your DC. Often they won’t be and allegations on both sides don’t always mean a change should happen. Fact finding hearing will consider reports ordered by the judge into abuse and mental health.

Your strong argument is that presumably your dc is at school. Therefore argue that a home routine matters a great deal. Homework and reading as well as play dates matter from now on. Is ex close to school? Are transport arrangements easy or disruptive? Who gets the child benefit now? I assume you are already the resident parent for benefits and GP? So make a clear case for the status quo or even in your favour.

You don’t have to be the perfect parent. Good enough is fine and parents can be parents even with a history of quite severe MH issues if they get support. A legal rep or barrister would make this point very clearly for you but if you need to do it yourself, focus on your positive parental skills.