Can this woman appeal? How can we help her?

[TERF4Life]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/09/uk-woman-loses-jail-term-appeal-after-killing-man-as-he-sexually-assaulted-her

Can any legal bods tell me if this lady can appeal any further? If not, is there any other way of helping her legally? Quite a few of us on FWR want to do something!

The door is always open for any juror to reject the charge applied if their conscience dictates, and vote not guilty.

There is no way that even a few years of self-defence training will enable you to take on an attacker in combat. And a weapon is more likely to be wrested from you and used against you, so by all means why not furnish your attacker with the means to seriously harm or kill you?

I have a background in combat sports and would like to second this. I seeth at the number of self defense/knife defense courses aimed at women that are virtually guaranteed to get them hurt or worse.

There's an awful one going around social media at the moment with a woman in glasses and a pink Gi that makes my blood boil.

Even at my ripe old age, I am significantly stronger/fitter than most women (and a good portion of men) and I would back myself to be capable of causing serious damage in the right circumstances. Unfortunately, the 'right circumstances' rarely exist in the real world. I wouldn't carry a knife into a fight with a man if you paid me.

The reality of the matter is that in a real 'fight', you will end up on the floor and even if you're strong, fit and know what you're doing, if your attacker is bigger and stronger than you, you will get hurt. Add a knife to the chaos and something terrible is almost certainly bound to happen.

I know a handful of people who teach what I would call 'effective' self defense for women. Everything they teach is based around awareness, avoiding and escaping conflict before engaging.

Nobody is being unsympathetic here. It's an awful set of circumstances. A young, drunk woman with limited capacity was put in a terrible situation, reacted to a man's appalling behavior in an equally terrible way and will now suffer the consequences of her actions.

Everyone has sympathy, but we're talking about the facts of the matter so we have to separate them from our feelings.

I've read almost everything that is publicly available on this case now (still only a fraction of what the jury were presented) and from what we know, this is simply not a case of a woman killing someone while defending herself from rape.

The sexual assault occurred earlier in the car journey, when he put his hand on her leg and tried to put his hand up her top/touched her breast/slapped her. Completely inexcusable.

The violent assault took place when they were both outside the car arguing. He pushed her to the floor and the two other people present intervened and split them up. Also inexcusable.

They all got back in the car, him and her in the front, the others in the back. Shortly after this she produced the knife and stabbed him in a fit of anger while he was looking at his phone.

The narrative account on the JusticeForWomen website seems to have some of these details confused, in the wrong order or omitted entirely.

What's strange is, even the Judge in his sentencing remarks said that due to there only being a single blow, he was sure that she hadn't meant to kill him.

Odd choice of words in that "...sure, so that you are certain" is often the guidance given to jurors as to how strongly they should feel about something when convicting.

Odd choice of words in that "...sure, so that you are certain" is often the guidance given to jurors as to how strongly they should feel about something when convicting.

For murder, there doesn't have to be an intent to kill. An intent to cause grievous bodily harm is enough. It is therefore not unreasonable for the judge to say that he is sure she didn't mean to kill. That doesn't stop it from being murder.

And jurors vote according to their conscience. (Otherwise what's the point ?)

At this time women can't carry weapons and the rape culture in this country is appalling. So the status quo isn't working.
Women are conned into thinking that they can't or shouldn't fight back...but as long as they don't then the situation will never change. Self defence lessons are better than nothing. Men who assault women are cowards, they don't expect them to fight back. You can't avoid violent men either...they can be anywhere...they can be someone you know or trust. Not being there is not an option for some women.
The whole culture of Britain enables women to be attacked, the legal system collides with it. You're told not to carry a weapon or fight back in case he hurts or kills you...but 3 women a week are murdered. And thousands are raped.
So the present system isn't working for us. Women who fight back get punished. It's BS...Women are taught to be passive from an early age...it needs to change.

Women cannot carry illegal weapons. As has been pointed out by others, if you carry a knife and are attacked, there is a good chance your attacker will use the knife against you.

You can fight back, and you will not be punished for it. If this woman had been acting in self-defence, she would not have been convicted of murder. She may still have been convicted of carrying a knife, but there is a good chance that would only have been a suspended sentence. The long sentence is because the jury decided she was not fighting back or defending herself.

Women cannot carry illegal weapons.

But men can ?

No-one can! I was responding to a poster who said women can't carry weapons, but I realise I could have phrased this better. Anyone can carry legal weapons, no-one can carry illegal weapons.

I don't understand the point you are making. In this case, the jurors could and almost certainly did vote with their consciences, and found the defendant guilty.

Being a pedant, people can carry whatever weapons they like. Legal or illegal. However (rather obviously) they usually face a criminal prosecution and penalty of law if they are caught carrying an illegal weapon.

Probably a tiresome interjection. However I wanted to address the rather childish notion that making things illegal magically makes them disappear. Because that does feed into a wider point about the perpetual clamour for "the law" to do something about something. Sometimes no amount of law will prevent the vicissitudes of human behaviour.

As you were.

Is there anywhere you can sign in support of Martyna?

This sentence is rotten to the core!

What is going on in the UK?

A foreign immigrant child sex predator who abused kids then onsold them is released after 2 1/2 years to the community he terrorised and she gets 17 years to stop a 2nd rape occurring within 3 years of previous trauma!

You have to be f*** joking, surely the court system cannot be serious.

Sickening!!!

How is the sentence rotten? You think that, because she claimed to be acting in self-defence she should have been given a lighter sentence, despite the fact that the jury rejected her claim due to the evidence from her friends who were present at the time and saw what happened?

What is sickening is the need to introduce "foreign immigrant" which has utterly no relevance to the attempted comparison. Would you have included the words "white Brit" in the comparison of a "home-grown" offender? Did it pass you by entirely that this convicted murderer you are defending is a "foreign immigrant"?

The article is slanted and does not accurately describe what was clearly a murder. Her story is sad, but she was carrying a knife, and it clearly wasn't for paring apples. She was not defending herself - whatever wrong was done to her, she launched a knite attack on a person who was not attacking her. Perhaps read @Velmy post further up the page for a fuller version?

This sums is up perfectly

Except that they were in the front seats not the back seats, and he was scrolling on his phone at the time she attacked him...

Thank you for giving us the facts of the case. The article above gives a different image of what happened.

@Swashbuckled
Due to the reason that you say you bought the Swiss army penknife, that would imply that you are carrying it for self defence.
That makes it pre-meditated, and if you use it then it would be an offensive weapon

3” blades have been mentioned. This is a general guideline, but does not make a small blade fully legal to carry - circumstances can dictate that - walking alone in a rural area with a small penknife that you bought after a high profile case would imply pre-meditate defence

A point to think of is how you would use it, at what time do you decide to pull out your key ring, grab the knife, unfold the blade (how tight is it?) etc

A bunch of keys is better - fully normal to be carried, have an assortment of keys, grip one Yale style between fingers and you have a pokey thing with a jagged edge that’s ideal to scratch with a level of stabbyness to cause pain to an attacker, ideally encouraging them to back off enough for you to run

So maybe people should not always believe what they read?

Not only has this poster introduced "foreign immigrant", she has branded him a "child sex predator" without any evidence.

True, although I assumed she was talking about an actual convicted criminal where guilt was proven - but I should know better than to assume anything on this site.

A bunch of keys is better - fully normal to be carried, have an assortment of keys, grip one Yale style between fingers and you have a pokey thing with a jagged edge that’s ideal to scratch with a level of stabbyness to cause pain to an attacker, ideally encouraging them to back off enough for you to run

I know this isn't the point of the thread but as we're here...the 'bunch of keys' thing is another 'self-defence' myth that has been passed down through the years with little basis in fact/practical use and will do most people more harm than good.

If you're taken by surprise, you simply won't have time to take them out of your bag/pocket, arrange them between your fingers etc.

Even if you have them perfectly placed and held in your hand, they're of very little use. The weapons you're trying to emulate (things like the Indian bagh nakh) have rings attached to the grip for your fingers to go though, to stop the small blades/spikes moving/sliding in your hand. A key/keys will move/slide all over the place on contact with anything, or be pushed back into the palm of your hand.

Your attacker will be full of adrenaline; even in the event that you were extremely lucky and were able to pierce the skin on their body, it's unlikely they'd feel it immediately. For context I have been stabbed in the leg with a small knife causing an inch deep, two-inch long wound, and didn't realise until about five minutes later when someone else pointed it out to me!

Essentially your only option for using keys to cause serious damage to someone approaching you from a distance, is to punch them directly in the eye, which realistically is unlikely to happen.

If you are in a close-up situation where an attacker already has a hold of you/is on top of you/pressing you into a wall etc, you have a much better chance of effectively damaging them by - and forgive me because this isn't pleasant - biting their ears/nose/lips or gouging their eyes with your fingers/thumbs.

My Mom said that there should be a cull of young men...I was shocked when she said it out of nowhere but as I get older it makes more sense. I've known women who effectively defended themselves against bigger stronger men because they got in touch with their rage and it gave them strength. Our society teaches girls to be passive...and every single misogynist had a mum who put up with his shit. Misogyny starts early and is programmed by social media and religion. Nearly all women I know have been raped, and the attacker got away with it because the police and courts blamed the victim.There is a 3% conviction rate...Women get locked up for hate tweets...this situation won't change while women remain passive and complicit.
I've known women hit men with a frying pan, pour boiling water on an abusers genitals and fight back against the 2 a week death penalty imposed on women every week. Being passive gets you nowhere. Carrying a knife gives you confidence and it could save your life. I saw Tibetan women carrying knives when on holiday in Nepal...and no one messed with them. All this pacifist bs gets women nowhere...just the status quo of endless rapes and domestic abuse. It's time to misbehave, girls...

(a) In Tibet knives are tools, not weapons. Tibet is still a largely pastoral society in which a knife is regulary used for domestic and work purposes.
(b) In Tibet gender based violence and abuse are extremely common, and believe me they get "messed with" - probably more so than Western women. Multple studies have shown that not only is there significant abuse of women, but that there is a prevailing attitude that sexual violence within marriage is acceptable.
(c) Misogyny is rife in Tibet - for example Tibetans regularly pray not to be reborn as a woman; and elderly women are routinely abandoned to prevent them from becoming a burden on the family.
(d) A holiday gives no insight into a real culture. Your comments are very wide of the mark in respect of the place of women in Tibetan society.

(e) Women who carry knives are breaking the law. It is not "pacifist bs" to point out that a woman carrying a knife in the UK for any claimed purpose will get exactly the same treatment as a man - a criminal record, and possible jail time. If she injures or kills someone with that knife she will potentially be charged with and convicted of either manslughter or murder and spend a very long time in prison.
(f) And that is if she is lucky because any weapon she selects to carry is far more likley to be used against her.

And misogyny is complex, but even if every misgynist had a mum who "put up with his shit" (and that is hardly true) why blame a woman for it? Has he no self-determination?

As for helping this girl who was convicted as a teenager...(don't forget that courts let off teenaged rapists frequently.) It's possible to crowdfund online...I'm old so don't understand this modern tech stuff but she'll need financial help once she's released. Women need to support each other if friends or relatives are being abused. Unfortunately alot of abused women choose to stay in these relationships...because they have Stockholm syndrome...Warn your daughter's about abuse red flags....
It is valid to mention migrant child abusers because the government and authorities keep covering it up. And virtue signallers keep preaching that we mustn't mention the culture, or colour of offenders. The rape gangs that affected the entire country targeted white working class girls because they were deemed worthless trash by the abusers, as well as authorities more concerned about upsetting the Pakistani community and losing their votes..Men from these lawless, failed states are likely to bring their misogynistic (and homophobic) attitudes here.
Look at how women are treated in Middle eastern and north African states where people are murdered for blasphemy or being gay to see how an epidemic of bigotry and VAWG has been imported here...Did you think acid attacks, FGM, and Taharrush Gamea originated here?...I've got contacts in Europe who have told me the truth of what govts try to hide. They used women and girls as Danegeld to appease violent migrant men and are still doing so. If anyone protests, they get silenced or censored or even arrested..Women who speak out get death threats...I used to support the left, but they've harmed the Working class by demonising white people, betraying women, the elderly and disabled (to more cuts) in favour of Neoliberal capitalism and 'protected groups'...Religion is exempt from anti discrimination laws when it's the worst offender...They all 'portray women as liars and temptresses"...All cultures are dominated by men, so multiculturalism has enabled culture based hatred towards women because it's 'racist' or 'islamophobic' to condemn it...Religion- is -one -long -hate -crime- against- women...especially against those trying to leave it...Guess which one?............ Even men claiming to be women got more approval from the left despite the obnoxious behaviour of the Trans rights movement...which just ended up harming their cause...It took a supreme court decision by a bunch of old men to tell politicians what a woman is!...WTF happened to
feminism?...Women standing up against patriarchy, religion and all the crap that just favours men. I have close friends from all religions...as women, they have all suffered from horrific 'sanctified' abuse...that's why I'm so angry at the Left...and for supporting Hamas..🤮🤮🤮
Our courts are tainted with assumptions about women, where their dress demeanor and 'virtue' are all scrutinised. Women are being locked up for having late term abortions. We're turning into effing Gilead...The jailing of a teenaged girl for killing an abusive man is all part of the picture.
Everyone has to be so PC now that we can't say that The Emperor has No Clothes...
PS you can downvote all you like I don't care and btw I've seen off more sexist nutters than you've had hot dinners.