Legal Obligations Regarding Overhanging Tree into School Gounds

[TrinityClover]

I’m after a bit of advice. My house backs on to a school and we have some Laylandi at the bottom of the garden. I like them as they offer privacy. Last year headmaster at school turns up at my door after a heavy storm saying there was a broken branch hanging down into the school grounds and could I do something about it? Without thinking about it too much I say I’ll take a look and sort it. I should just say that where the trees are is not near where the children play. The grounds are huge and ironically they are growing a forest on the land in front of my house so they can offer a forest school.

I take a look and can see a branch about 7 inches wide has broken away from the tree but is still attached. It just needs cutting off. It near is the bottom so ask my partner if it’s something we could do ourselves. He has a small electric saw. I take the day off work, as does my partner and I go to the school to sort it out. Headmaster refuses to allow us on premises. Apparently we can only come when the children are not in school. I explain we have taken time off to sort it out at his request. He sticks to his guns until I say we will cut it from outside (awkward but possible) and just let it drop on to their land for him to sort. He relents but makes a Secretary come and stand with us (this last for about 15 mins as it’s cold and wet and we ended up being there for about 2 hours. We cut the branch off and cut it in to pieces so could thrown some back into my land and put the rest up by the fence.

However this is when I started to question all this. It took me and my partner at 60 years of age two hours to do with a poxy electric saw where we had to put over the fence attached to a long extension lead. The blade was about 8 inches long. All this time there were 3 young labourers stood on the playground a few metres away with a chain saw cutting up logs of wood to make a ‘natural’ play area. They could have done what we did in less than 5 mins so this got me thinking as to my legal obligations? Am I legally obliged to address issues that affect the school land bearing in mind they have to tools and equipment to do it themselves.

It came up again 2 weeks ago week when the caretaker came round about a falling branch. It has broken off completely and is only about 4 inches wide and looking at it I thought if you just pulled it would come down. I was at the time waiting for an Uber and was going away for the week so nothing I could do about it then. I explained to the caretaker my issues as above. He then admitted Headmaster wasn’t keen to do it as he’d have to pay. He admitted they again had labourers on site, with a chainsaw so it was agreed they would sort it and I would pay. As of yesterday it has been addressed and I’ve not heard from the school. Hoping they realise it was such a small job it wasn’t worth come back to me.

So what are my legal obligations? I probably wouldn’t have thought too much about it if the headmaster hadn’t been so awkward and clearly had the staff and equipment to deal with it quickly.

As you own the tree, you are responsible for it, including those parts of the tree that overhang the school's land. The fact the school have the tools and equipment to do it themselves is irrelevant. If they do the work themselves, they are entitled to get you to cover the cost.

Can’t comment on the legalities regarding the tree branches, but for safeguarding reasons the headteacher cannot allow you onto school grounds unsupervised while there are children in school. You must realise that? As a school governor I would consider this a serious breach.

For once I disagree with this.

There are two principles at play here:

1. Where a tree naturally overhangs a boundary the non-tree owner may remove overhanging branches. They must bear the cost, and offer to return to the tree owner what has been removed.
2. A tree owner will be responsible if the tree causes harm/damage, and that was reasonably foreseeable.

I'm not sure that (2) comes in to play here, as it does not seem that no damage has been done, so it presents a theoretical risk that OP would do well to abate, lest they be held responsible if damage or harm is caused.

Given the right in (1) is in order to enable the neighbour to abate a nuisance, and a broken branch is still just a nuisance, I cannot see a clear way for the school to present OP with a bill.

This is a world’s gone mad situation where common sense goes out of the window. The grounds are the size of a football stadium if not bigger. We were no where near the children who were also supervised by a teacher whilst we were there.

And also from a safeguarding point isn’t it incumbent on the Headmaster to ensure his premises are safe? It’s not possible for me to see what his happening on his grounds. I was away for two weeks last month so nothing I could do. Again common sense would dictate he makes his premises safe as soon as he sees a hazard?

Of course it’s a safeguarding issue to let strangers on to school property, the size of the school grounds is completely irrelevant.
sounds like the headmaster was absolutely reasonable in his position.

Not just strangers … strangers with chainsaw or axe….

I believe that legally you do not have to cut the tree back. Legally the people who's boundary it's overhanging (the school) can cut it back even without your permission. The grey area is if a branch drops on a kid, especially if you have been made aware of a risk, you might potentially be liable?

My arsehole neighbour at the bottom of me came screaming round demanding we cut his side of our conifer hedge. I'm ignoring him and have been told that legally I can't be made to do it, nor can he bill me for doing it, but he can do it himself (which he's welcome to do).

I agree with Collaborate this time, having looked into this loads of times. Like a mug however I have ended up paying to get neighbours overhanging branches removed ; and also paying for our trees to be trimmed when overhanging the neighbours property!

As you value the tree & the privacy it provides, it's in your interest to manage the tree better. By going on the attack, you risk them seeking an order for the tree to be removed.
It's not hard understand why you weren't allowed in during school time.
I'd sort it out in a heartbeat as it would mean that no children were hurt by my inaction.

To be fair, though, I know the law says that you don't have to bother at all; but do you really morally think that you're a mug for ensuring that your own trees/hedge aren't a nuisance for your neigbours, and they don't end up forced to spend their own time or their own money to pay somebody to control your trees, in order to be able to enjoy their own property?

I think it's a bit like with cats, where the law says they're free-roaming animals and you legally don't have to care about where they poo at all; but you wouldn't be a very nice person if your cat was constantly pooing in your neighbour's garden and you just said "Tough, not my problem".

It really isn’t. Children should be safe at school. No one should be on school premises unsupervised unless they have been thoroughly checked out. Teachers should be free to teach, send children to other classrooms etc without worrying about whether there are random people on the premises who they might need to protect the children from. That’s the common sense position. It would have been easy enough to arrange a date and time to go into the school before taking time the off work.

Other people can cut back your hedges or trees to the boundary if they encroach onto their land, and all they need to do is offer to return the cut branches to you.

The school head is being an arse about this.

Your trees are you responsibility.
As for not letting you onto school property while the school is open ..of course that's not permitted what if a branch fell on a child , it's a safeguarding concern
Yabu

@IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta I feel a bit like a mug that we’ve ended up paying out for all of it yes!

Of course they should be safe in school. That’s why the headmaster should address the issue when they see it. As I said I was away for 2 weeks last month and I work away a lot. Are you saying it’s reasonable for him to sit there seeing an obvious danger and do nothing about it because he’s unable to get hold of me? Especially when he has the means and staff to address it immediately but doesn’t want to because it costs him money? For someone with a chainsaw it was a 5 minute job.

And there are children on the premises from 8am to 5pm everyday and it was February so in reality the only time we could have gone was the weekend when there are no staff present? We couldn’t access the school premises and the children were supervised when outside and by extension us. We were not the ones with the chainsaw it was the labourers who had one. We had a small electric saw which was plugged in to my house, attached to an extension lead and posted over my fence. We couldn’t move about more than a metre from our fence with the saw due to the length of the extension lead.

We could have just cut the branch from our side and he could have dealt with it when it dropped on to his land but he didn’t want to have to pay any money. Once the branch dropped any potential danger was removed so no moral obligation on my part to do anything but we did cut it in to pieces and put back in my garden. Although ironically I could have offered it to the labourers to use in making their ‘natural’ playground.

Why did you ask if you're just going to argue with everyone?

It is more the headmaster’s inaction who is putting the children at risk and putting money before safety. As I said I work away a lot so not always around and I can’t see the back of the tree so need to be told if there’s an issue. Again surely it is incumbent on him to address the issue when he sees it? Are posters honestly saying it would be reasonable for him to say to me on Monday you need to come and cut the branch because it’s a danger to the children. However you can’t come when the children are in school, it’s not possible to do it after 5 because it’s winter and dark. You can’t come at the weekend because there’s no one here??? I may be able to get someone to let you on school premises in inset day in a months time?

I was not refusing to do it he was just just making it impossible for me to address. He can’t have it both ways. Ultimately he doesn’t want to spend money to make his premises safe not me and and I am just trying to find out my legal obligations when dealing with someone who is an A1 arse.

Of course you can't just rock up at a school unexpectedly with a saw and expect to be let onto the premises! I don't understand why you didn't talk all of this through with the head when he asked you to sort it out, before you both took the day off work 🤨

Exactly!!!! What would happen if a branch fell on a child because the idiot headmaster put money before safety? That instead of letting me remove it immediately he made me wait 2-3 weeks instead of asking one of the labouers already on-site with a chainsaw to cut it which would have taken a few minutes but didn’t want in case they charged him?

And if you read my previous posts the grounds are huge and the area is not anywhere near where the children are who are being supervised in the enclosed playground some distance away when outside!!

February and two weeks ago have school holidays. Are they when they were inspecting the grounds and hoped/ expected you to take care of your trees as the children were not in attendance?