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Original poster

Child arrangement order - breach?

32 replies

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 13:29

Hi, just wanting some advice on what to do if ex is breaching the CAO?

For context, it's been in place about 10 months, shared school hols and 2 nights per week (at his request). But since the start of the year he's not had them at all (new girlfriend affect). Luckily they are fine with it and not missing Dad, always happy to stop with me. It just seems silly that we went through all the legality of it last year and agreeing to set times for stability for the kids and now he wants nothing? Just the ad hoc few hours here and there when he's "free"?? He thinks its reasonable for him to text me a day before and demand to have the children for 2 hours the next day. I've already planned and used all my annual leave for the rest of this year and had to take unpaid leave for a week over Easter when they were meant to be with him as per the court order.

Do the courts take it seriously or don't they really do anything due to not being able to force contact? Anyone else been through this and reported a breach? What is worth it and what was the outcome? Any advice welcome!

OP posts:
FortyElephants · 30/04/2025 13:31

It's not a breach if he's not taking up the available contact unfortunately. The order governs the parent who has to make them available for contact, it doesn't enforce the other parent actually having them.

However, if the children are really young and you think it's worth the effort, expense and potential drama, you could apply to court to vary the order and reflect the time he actually has them. I wouldn't advise this though, unless you really have to.

sunshinewithoutrainbows · 30/04/2025 13:33

As you are the primary carer only you can be fined and imprisoned for with holding the children. This is what my sister was told. They can’t force contact

Meadowfinch · 30/04/2025 13:48

The courts can't force him to see his dcs, so that won't change. They can require you to make the dcs available on the dates laid out in the order, but not otherwise.

If you don't want to make them available on those ad hoc occasions because you have made other plans, you are totally justified in saying no.

prh47bridge · 30/04/2025 14:17

As others have said, it is not a breach for him to fail to take up contact. However, you can use this to get the order changed if you want. Keep a diary so that you can show what has happened.

You do not have to make the children available for contact at any times other than those specified in the order. The courts expect you to be reasonable, so you shouldn't refuse contact just because it isn't at the right time, but you can refuse if it is inconvenient or causes problems.

notwittywithusernames · 30/04/2025 16:36

Sorry perhaps I worded it badly. He has been told it is to be I direct co tact only. He turned up where he knew she would be. I understand about the making available etc.

Just very new situation and trying to understand things, that's all.

Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:12

Thanks all for clarification, pretty pointless document then I suppose? Because at the end of the day, the NRP will always have the control over when / how they’d like to see the children, no matter how much you try and agree on a routine. They’ll be able to change it at the drop of a hat with no consequences for them 😫

OP posts:
Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:14

prh47bridge · 30/04/2025 14:17

As others have said, it is not a breach for him to fail to take up contact. However, you can use this to get the order changed if you want. Keep a diary so that you can show what has happened.

You do not have to make the children available for contact at any times other than those specified in the order. The courts expect you to be reasonable, so you shouldn't refuse contact just because it isn't at the right time, but you can refuse if it is inconvenient or causes problems.

Thank you. I have started keeping a diary of all the weekends, midweek and school holiday contact he’s missed over the last few months. X

OP posts:
Mrsttcno1 · 30/04/2025 18:18

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:12

Thanks all for clarification, pretty pointless document then I suppose? Because at the end of the day, the NRP will always have the control over when / how they’d like to see the children, no matter how much you try and agree on a routine. They’ll be able to change it at the drop of a hat with no consequences for them 😫

Well no, in your particular situation it’s a bit pointless as he’s not taking up contact BUT there are many other situations where the RP will not make the children available for contact and in those situations the document is very important because failing to allow contact is a breach.

Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:36

Mrsttcno1 · 30/04/2025 18:18

Well no, in your particular situation it’s a bit pointless as he’s not taking up contact BUT there are many other situations where the RP will not make the children available for contact and in those situations the document is very important because failing to allow contact is a breach.

Show quote history

Sorry, I didn’t mean it in that sense, I meant for my benefit it was pointless, as I was all for it too, I thought it covered both RP / NRP and made sure both needed to adhere to it. I guess I was a bit naive thinking it would be plain sailing. I did not see this coming at all so still baffled by his lack of contact.

OP posts:
Mrsttcno1 · 30/04/2025 18:37

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:36

Sorry, I didn’t mean it in that sense, I meant for my benefit it was pointless, as I was all for it too, I thought it covered both RP / NRP and made sure both needed to adhere to it. I guess I was a bit naive thinking it would be plain sailing. I did not see this coming at all so still baffled by his lack of contact.

Show quote history

It is shit, especially when it sounds like he wanted to get this all set up formally. What a load of hassle, time & expense only for him to not bother sticking to his side of the deal anyway!

Doidontimmm · 30/04/2025 18:46

You can though go to cms and request more as he is not having them

MeetMyCat · 30/04/2025 18:49

It's not a breach if he's not taking up the available contact unfortunately. The order governs the parent who has to make them available for contact, it doesn't enforce the other parent actually having them.

This. I took advice myself, and this was the response

Mumofteenandtween · 30/04/2025 18:50

It governs when he has to give them back.

Orders are done under the assumption that both parents want the kids as much as possible.

DrummingMousWife · 30/04/2025 18:52

If it’s not his allotted time you don’t have to hand the kids over. I would refuse if it’s not his “court appointed time” as he can’t just demand when he likes.

AnotherNaCha · 30/04/2025 19:01

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 18:12

Thanks all for clarification, pretty pointless document then I suppose? Because at the end of the day, the NRP will always have the control over when / how they’d like to see the children, no matter how much you try and agree on a routine. They’ll be able to change it at the drop of a hat with no consequences for them 😫

The entire system is a misogynistic joke, isn’t it?! And not fair on the kids if that’s what they were expecting and you presumably primed them for.

Does it affect any maintenance?

we need reform of the entire system!!

MeetMyCat · 30/04/2025 19:07

Orders are done under the assumption that both parents want the kids as much as possible.

When in reality, the reverse is often true!

CoffeeCup14 · 30/04/2025 19:11

They'll go by what the court order says. Unless he agrees that he's having them fewer nights, the court order is the evidence they rely on.

CoffeeCup14 · 30/04/2025 19:11

They'll go by what the court order says. Unless he agrees that he's having them fewer nights, the court order is the evidence they rely on.

HarryVanderspeigle · 30/04/2025 19:15

Is he paying more in child support as he isn't having them when they are available for him? If not, that might get him to change his mind.

Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:47

I did think that CMS wouldn’t change because of the court order (which they have a copy of), but I typed up a document and outlined the current situation on it (that he no longer has them overnight - his choice - and that he’s not seen them for months). Uploaded up along with a changed to shared care and a few days later it got accepted. I’ve got no idea if they contacted him or not, I’m guessing they did and luckily he must’ve had an ounce of morality that day and confirmed it.

OP posts:
Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:55

AnotherNaCha · 30/04/2025 19:01

The entire system is a misogynistic joke, isn’t it?! And not fair on the kids if that’s what they were expecting and you presumably primed them for.

Does it affect any maintenance?

we need reform of the entire system!!

Edited
Show quote history

Honestly I just feel for the kids. On one occasion, he promised them for weeks he was taking them away for 3 days (uk break), they were counting down the days, packed their little bags the night before, bucket and spade ready for the beach, sat waiting with their shoes on and he text 10 mins before he was due to say he can’t take them anymore as something had come up and he needed to work. Turns out he’d never actually booked anything. Then I’m left dealing with the aftermath. Honestly the system is crazy. I’d rather him just turn around and say he doesn’t want to see them anymore, saves the heartbreak and constant cycle of being let down and wondering “why Daddy doesn’t love us or want to see us anymore” x

OP posts:
Original poster
marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:55

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:55

Honestly I just feel for the kids. On one occasion, he promised them for weeks he was taking them away for 3 days (uk break), they were counting down the days, packed their little bags the night before, bucket and spade ready for the beach, sat waiting with their shoes on and he text 10 mins before he was due to say he can’t take them anymore as something had come up and he needed to work. Turns out he’d never actually booked anything. Then I’m left dealing with the aftermath. Honestly the system is crazy. I’d rather him just turn around and say he doesn’t want to see them anymore, saves the heartbreak and constant cycle of being let down and wondering “why Daddy doesn’t love us or want to see us anymore” x

Show quote history

The night before he even rang them and said “are you excited for tomorrow?” 😡

OP posts:
Wishitsnows · 30/04/2025 19:58

It’s crazy but the moment you don’t hand them over on his documented time you are in breach! He sounds like such a shit dad.

AnotherNaCha · 01/05/2025 10:26

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:55

Honestly I just feel for the kids. On one occasion, he promised them for weeks he was taking them away for 3 days (uk break), they were counting down the days, packed their little bags the night before, bucket and spade ready for the beach, sat waiting with their shoes on and he text 10 mins before he was due to say he can’t take them anymore as something had come up and he needed to work. Turns out he’d never actually booked anything. Then I’m left dealing with the aftermath. Honestly the system is crazy. I’d rather him just turn around and say he doesn’t want to see them anymore, saves the heartbreak and constant cycle of being let down and wondering “why Daddy doesn’t love us or want to see us anymore” x

Show quote history

Absolutely heartbreaking 💔. How can the system work one way like this!

Hopefully documenting it all will help but I just don’t know. It’s not fair they prioritise father’s rights over children’s wellbeing

AnotherNaCha · 01/05/2025 10:27

marshyrun · 30/04/2025 19:55

The night before he even rang them and said “are you excited for tomorrow?” 😡

Show quote history

No way :(

I hope all this is enough to change the order. Sounds worth trying