Calm my nerves please, divorce.

[JayJayy]

I have an appointment with a SHL on Thursday, but just hoping to get my head around things and calm my nerves about what the future holds.

H and I divorcing. Married for 29 years. Grown apart and I've not been happy for a while and bit the bullet. He's angry. We have 2 children. Both grown up and married themselves.

2017 my Mum died and left me her house, I was sole benefiiary.. When the estate was settled I put the money into buying a bigger property with H. The financials are where this gets complex:

H, 54, decent earner £85k plus bonuses. Pensions etc.

Me, 51. SAHM, completed a degree in 2010 but never managed to do anything with it because I was raising kids and supporting his career. Now I work part time, earning around £500 a month, I am now increasing that to try and get to full time. Fortunately my company is very supportive.

House, purchased for £240k in 2018 using previous home, plus inheritance of around £90k (some was given to the kids for house deposits). House now valued around £350k, probably £100k left on the mortgage. Joint names.

Assets, he has a few cars. I have a lease in his name. About £12k savings in joint names. I have nothing. No savings in my name, no assets.

He's made me a few offers. Would like me to go away and rent for 12 years (remaining mortgage term), he'll pay me £600 a month to do this, and then when the 12 years is up he'll give me my £90k back.

Doesn't feel I am entitled to any of his pensions and tells me if I get them then I wont get any benefits. I wasn't planning on claiming them but thats by the by.

Sell house, he gives me exactly half and walks away.

I've been told there is a possibility I can get my mums money back as well as the equity, but also told that because my earning potential has been so massively reduced through supporting his career I can ask for spousal maintenance until I'm settled.

I'm desperately unhappy trying to cohabit in the house with him. I have nowhere to go, he now expects me to pay half the bills and mortgage on my pittance of a part time wage and I don't know what to do. I don't even know how I'm paying for the SHL yet. I did manage to squirrel away £3k which hopefully will cover a consultation at least.
In the last half an hour a Government Divorce thing has landed in my inbox which he expects me to fill in.

So confused. Help!

I'll also add. Bank account is joint. I was given a card, never played a part in bills, savings etc. I've been so bloody stupid. He's had full control for 30 years.

The starting point is 50/50 of marital assets including family home, pensions and other assets. I understand that given you used the inheritance as part of the family home then it is considered a marital asset now.

So the starting point would be 125k each of equity in the house (250k split) and also half of pensions. Given your ages and his income, his pension may be more valuable then the equity in the house so it is important that your split of this is considered and it may then provide some leverage over more equity in the house (if that is more important for you). You need to think of his pension as a joint asset (it effectively is) since he could have chosen to pay into pensions for you as well.

In terms of earning power, you are right that you will need to maximise your earnings but spousal maintenance is definitely possible given your length of marriage/age and disparity in income. Perhaps also discuss interim maintenance with your solicitor to help pay imminent bills.

I would take any documents he has sent you with you when you see your solicitor.

Could you withdraw half of the savings from your joint savings account to tide you over?

What’s an SHL?

Hmm, not sure your figures add up.
You sold your existing home, and the proceeds of that, plus your 90k plus a mortgage that was bigger than 100k, added up to 240k? That seems a very low amount of equity to put in to your bigger, upgrade house. Have I understood that correctly?
Anyway , whilst the inheritance is a bit of a grey area for me, ( as in legally, not sure where you would stand with this given it's been enmeshed with the family finances for some years now) I'd have thought that you'd be entitled to at least half of everything. So you need to get his pension valued.
Your SHL is going to be expensive and will be able to advise you better if she has all the info in front of her. If you look, you can probably find paperwork around the house relating to the pension arrangements. You may well find that the pension is worth a lot more than your 90k inheritance ( which presumably will have increased pro rata with the value of the house. Absolutely don't agree to him paying you 90k flat in 12 years time!

Your earning capacity is substantially less than his even if you were to get full-time work and there may some element of spousal maintenance available , but this is often limited.
See the SHL, give them all the figures, then start thinking about mediation, assuming he's not abusive. If he is, then mediation would not be appropriate.

SHL.
Shit hot lawyer...

Thank you, reassuring!
Apolgies, SHL is MNet slang.... Shit Hot Lawyer.

I'm in the slightly fortunate position at present that the savings are in a premium bonds account, and as that can only be in one name it is in mine. I could possibly pull down half of that yes.

My figures will be ropey because i've never had access to the finances so its all a bit best guess.
We bought our old property in 1996, there was a mortgage on there which I paid off with some of mums money in 2017. We sold that house in 2018 for £110k from memory to buy this for £240k, I'd guess there was a mortgage of about £100k. I don't remember tbh as he dealt with it at the time. Again, my stupidity of taking a back seat.

I hadn't realised pensions were such an asset to be honest. Unsure if I can get any paperwork, I'll have a look in his office when he goes out, but he's WFH for the most part so very tricky.

Hadn't thought to take my half of the savings though, that would tide me over for a bit!

From friends going through this, the aim is supposed to be that both of you have your housing needs met and that you have parity in retirement.

Unless you somehow have substantial pension funds of your own that you haven't mentioned, you should expect some share of his.

You do need a solicitor. Don't panic, though, as you will both have to declare all pensions, finances and savings accounts (on, I think, Form E) before the divorce is finalised.

Take your own advice, don't just be pushed by him. He's not acting in your favour.

Sorry, what I mean is don't worry if you can't yet get pension amounts etc. He will have to declare them, but it's useful if you know which firms he's worked and for roughly how long, and maybe which pension companies he's with (in case he "forgets" some of them).

Thank you so so much.

I wish I had pensions. I gave him my life with small part time jobs to keep me sane over the years, none of which had pensions.

I've been stupid, I guess I could have taken the much easier option of staying, being this looked after possession I suppose. But I just cant keep doing this. I'm not that old yet, I need to live a bit.

his pension is absolutely included and you renting is daft. Get some legal advice fast with the savings you can access

Honestly, it's tough but it could be much worse. I have a friend in a similar position (low wage, childcare responsibilities) but she's unmarried, and her mum's modest house was sold for care costs. All she can have, after 25 years, is half their house equity and that's frankly not much.

You must, must, must have the pension taken into account in the split. It is likely worth far more than the equity in the house and could give you security in retirement. It can get transferred into a pension of your own. Yes, it could affect you getting some benefits, but until you know how much there is, no one can evaluate the best course of action, although my gut says take the pension and up your earnings so you don't need benefits.

He is taking the piss thinking he can stay in the family home until he retires and then just give you the equity based on current value and nothing else. While you carry on renting. Far too risky and not a clean break.

Your inheritance will more than likely just be considered a marital asset now, but you may be able to use it as a bargaining tool. You get all your inheritance and more equity in exchange for not touching pensions, for example.

Try to leave all emotion out of this from now on. See it as purely a business arrangement where you are looking out for your self. He is not your friend anymore and will be looking out for himself.

Don't beat yourself up. What's done is done. Look to the future and concentrate on maximising that.

Don't listen to what he says, he's talking bollocks about the pension. The rent thing is nuts too. Don't do that. You are entitled to 50% of everything as a starting point. It is likely that the house will need to be sold. If he is unwilling, you can force the sale as part of the divorce process.

As there is income disparity and you have shown willingness to improve your position, you may well be awarded spousal support for a limited time whilst you get yourself back on your feet. Don't let him pressure you into doing or signing anything.

It will likely get nasty as he will get angrier as he realises what he stands to lose. If you feel threatened by him at any point, don't hesitate to call the Police.

Remember that time is money when you meet your SHL. You don't need to make polite chit chat, just give them all the salient info. Take a pad and pen and take notes. Make sure you have somewhere secure to keep all your divorce related paperwork, personal documents etc. You don't want STBX snooping.

I hope your lawyer laughs at his silly little offer. Find a whole market mortgage broker and book in for after meeting your lawyer when you know what cash you will leave with. Even a small.mortgage might mean not having to rent. You will have a share of his pension I suspect.

Absolutely don't rent for the next 12 years and then get the equity. You are much better off getting what you are entitled to now, buy a place and spend the next 10-15 years paying off the mortgage. You may not be able to buy in 12 years time with 90K and you may not be approved for a mortgage and any reasonable term.

I admit I snorted at his rental plan. Yes, I absolutely want to rent with no security into my 60's whilst you stay in a nice home... I dont think so.

We have had an amicable chat this evening, I now have a lot of figures to work on.
I've worked out my new wage will be temporarily about £900 a month until I can sort more hours, he's worked out proportional cots for mortgage and bills based on percentage income and asked that I pay around £350 a month, which seems fair to me.
Been a bit of a trade over the lease car term for one of his so again, happy to settle there. Those are things that needed sorting now I guess because if he took my car away at this point I'd struggle.

Funnily enough, when he worked it out with me getting back my inheritance and equity I had around £144,000. He then told me he could borrow £144,500 so in theory we have equal value homes (though obviously he'll be paying a mortgage).

I hope this doesn't get nasty. He's never been violent towards me, though in the past has had a tendency to spy, follow me etc. For now I think we can co exist. We've had separate rooms for some time so really not much has changed. I'll see what nice solicitor says on Thursday. Thanks all.

Oh and you were all right....
there are 3 pensions. 2 Local Government, value unknown at present and he's getting the figures and one private thats around £110,000.
I'd never even considered those.

He might need specialist pension advice if he's trying to find the transfer equivalent value of a local government pension (I'm assuming it's defined benefit rather than a 'pot' as such), and that might take some time.

Ha! 2 civil service pensions, which are typically defined benefit are potentially very valuable assets, depending on how long he worked for them. After nearly 30 years of marriage, having married young, and with you having missed the best years to build a good pension of your own, you do need to fight to ensure you are left in the same position as him at retirement.

With the amount you know about already from his private pension, your far lower earning capacity etc, you may well find yourself able to take all the equity, or a substantial proportion of it if you agree to leave the pensions alone. And then be in a position to buy yourself a little place mortgage free.

Do be prepared that he could get very angry when he realises how much he stands to lose.

I think the realisation is dawning on how much he stands to lose. Local government are perhaps 10 years in total from rough memory.
I can buy a nice little 2 bed semi in these parts for around £140k, I don't want to take everything, just get myself a little house to live out my days in, ideally without mortgage. There is another small financial complication in a work bonus that was awarded 3 years ago. It was taxed in full at the time, but is being paid in 3 instalments tax free now. The last instalment, I think around £12k, is due in February. It's definitely not simple financially.

I will go full time, support myself and finally live my own life and I'm looking forward to that. Just me and the dog.

Probably not relevant, but as an only child I was very stifled and coddled, had a brief relationship resulting in my son at 18 and then met H when son was 9 months. He adopted and raised him and we had another child. Married by 24 I literally jumped from my parents looking after me to my husband. I've never in my life been on my own.
I felt something was wrong back when Mum died in 2017, and at the time wrestled with the idea of just moving into her house, but I persisted because familiar is safe isn't it?
Then in November last year my best friend in the world died very suddenly. We'd been like sisters for over 40 years. It hit me really hard, still does. Her relationship had not been a good one and it struck me that she'd devoted half her life to something she was thoroughly miserable in, a complete waste. I think from there I knew that I couldn't carry on with this.
He has admitted it's not a shock. He swings between 'ok, lets do this etc' to 'well I'll have nothing!!'.

Even if you can buy something mortgage-free, you will need some retirement income. Will you qualify for a full state pension? I wouldn't agree too quickly to taking more equity in exchange for no claim on his pension(s).

She needs to fully understand what the full picture is. If a house can be bought for that little (weeps in South East!) then there could be a good chunk of equity left that could go into a pension in her own name. At this stage, it is all about fact finding, and then negotiations can begin on whether it is best to have cash to invest rather than waiting for deferred benefits from a pension. It all depends on too many unknown variables at this point.

You must absolutely factor in pensions - and properly understand their real Value when you agree of a final settlement

Spousal maintenance these days is hardly ever awarded even with stay at home parents with young children. You’ll be expected to get a job to cover yourself. Starting point is 50/50 with equalisation of pensions which may mean you renting long term I’m afraid (depending on what you can get for your money). They won’t take into account your inheritance given how long ago it was applied to family finances.

I wouldn’t talk to him about anything right now. Do your digging and see what assets he has (savings, pensions etc) and get proof if you can. Just because they’re asked to declare it all doesn’t mean they will (my exH didn’t declare anything and despite being court ordered didn’t complete any of the financial info he was required to do).

I'd get a solicitor sharpish. You get half of all equity, savings, cars, pension.