Specific Issues Order – Schools, will DDs views be listened to?

[SchoolInMyTown]

60/40 residency of DD, aged 10 almost 11, court ordered. I’m the RP with 60%.

DD and I live in Town A, ExH lives in Town B which is around 10-15 minutes drive away (can be 20 or more when busy though). DD goes to a primary school in the town we live, and there is the option of two secondary schools, it’s 50/50 as to who goes where both are rated Good and have a similar ethos and results. 1 of the schools has a 6th form the other doesn’t so there’s always some movement from the one without a 6th form to the other at the end of year 11. She went to Nursery at the end of the road we live on, then to the primary school which is half a mile away from the nursery (around 0.7m from us).

In ExHs town there is 2 primary schools and a secondary school (also rated good but different ethos and policies to the 2 in Town A), it’s rare for anyone from DDs current primary to go to the secondary school, I don’t know anyone in DDs year (2 form entry) whose going this year and I only know of one in all the years of DD being at the school and that was because the family had moved to Town B when the child was in year 5.

On open days ExH and I took DD round all 3 schools, DD was told that all 3 would be on the form but we needed to decide on the order. She was asked which school she’d like to go to best of all 3. She hated the school in Town B, said she wouldn’t want to go there. No matter what. So I put that school 3rd on the list, and told her if she got that one we could have a look at other schools with spaces and choose one of those. ExH was adamant this was to be her school and she was going to this one, he wanted it as first preference and said that DD was going there. DD was adamant she wasn’t. She wouldn’t know anyone and she just did not like the school at all.

She really wanted School 1, it’s walking distance from my house, has a club that’s connected to one of her extra-curricular activities and she really liked the uniform. DD has some SN and they seemed really patient and supportive of her on the open day – she does not have an EHCP but is on the SN register and has support at her current school. Her schools SENCo thought this would be the best fit for DD too. Her best friend from her extra-curricular is also going to this school, and she has around 30 from her year of 60 going to this school so lots of familiar faces to help her settle (important with her SN).

She did also like the other school in our town so would be happy with either of those but really wanted School 1. I wasn’t bothered which school she got, so put it School 1, School 2, then school in Town B.

She was offered School 1 and was thrilled about it. She’s already talking about the school, she keeps wanting to walk up and look at her school and I’ve already got an appointment with the schools SENCo and the current schools SENCo for after easter, I don’t think DD would cope now if she was told to go a different school.

ExH is not happy and has taken it to court for a specific issues order. His main argument is that the current primary school, and the new high school are CofE Christian which neither ExH or I are, church attendance is not a requirement of the school but DD does consider herself to be a Christian even though she’s not christened.

ExH says she should go to the school in his town (which has spaces for September) as it would not affect DDs relationship with me, and it could improve it with ExH – for context we split due to his control and violence, DD absolutely hates going to his and has to be persuaded to go and says once she’s 13 she will only go some weekends. The current contact is court ordered (Child Arrangements Order). His other argument was that she doesn't need to go to a school that's Christian when neither of her parents are.

DD says if her dad forces her to go to the school in his town, she will never forgive him and won’t speak to him when she goes to his house. ExH is accusing me parent alienation over this saying I forced DD to choose the school nearest to me and that goes against ExHs strongly atheist views (I’m agnostic and believe my child has the right to choose what religion she is or if she’s religious at all). ExH also says that it’s me preventing 50/50 this way – for context I earn around £30k, he earns less than £10k and I also get DLA for DD so I’d have to pay him CM if we were 50/50 due to the difference in earnings and the DLA. DD considers herself to live with me, I correct her and say she has two homes and her dads house is also her home, but she insists she lives with me and stays with her dad, and wishes it was less often. I am not against 50/50 contact but DD is.

I am happy to share the DLA to make sure DD gets to go to the school she wants to go to.

If she goes to Town B school it will be unsafe for her to do the school run alone due to her SN and how they affect her so I’d have to drive her there everyday, which if it was the right fit for her schoolwise and there was no suitable closer school I’d do, but when there’s a school less than a mile from where I live that’s basically perfect for her I don’t see why I should. Either of the schools in my town she could walk to.

Does anyone know if DDs views will be listened to and if her reasons for going to this school are valied? Also will my views be taken into account?

Sorry no advice but he sounds like an utter asshole that doesn’t give a shit about your daughter and is doing this as an act of control. I hope the courts see through him.

Start preparing child focussed arguments and get a lawyer. All the extra things for SEN that school 1 has. Which clubs are good for her and why. Any report you can get from a professional involved in her care saying due to her SEN she would benefit most from a school she'll know people.

They'll see he is throwing his toys out the pram and you're focussed on the right environment for her.

I have a lawyer already, I'm using the same one i used for the CAO, she's very good but very expensive.

I'll speak to current schools SENCo about the new school and also see if the new schools SENCo will back me up. Will that be enough? We don't have any medical professionals involved, all diagnosis' where done through current school.

The court will listen to what your daughter wants, and also you and your ex. They will want to know what is in her best interests. Being able to get there easily and independently sounds like a significant benefit - will she be going to school from your house more frequently?

Realistically, given the backlog in the court system, will it even be considered in time to change whereshe goes to school? He may be able to ask for it to be heard urgently, given that it's time-sensitive.

Technically she goes to school from mine 6 mornings in 10 and comes back to mine 6 afternoons in 10. But because ExH refuses to pay for wraparound care I actually see her everyday and most mornings.

The CAO schedule is:

Week 1 Sunday night to Tuesday morning, Thursday after school to Sunday tea time with me. Tuesday after school until Thursday before school with ExH (6/7 technically in this week for me).

Week 2 Monday morning to Wednesday before school with me, and then Wednesday after school until Sunday tea time with ExH (2/7 for me this week).

But ExH won't pay for the wraparound on his mornings or afternoons so DD often turns up at mine around 8.15am on his mornings and leaves for school from mine, and the same in reverse in the evenings she's with him, she pops to me for tea and then I usually drive her to ExHs when he texts DD that he's home.

So if he won't pay for wrap around now, what would he do with her before and after school on his days if she went to school near his?

Secondary schools don't have wraparound here

Yes, but as you said she won't be able to travel independently to that school due to SEN. If he is already relying on you for drop offs and pick ups on his days, what is he going to change to be able to do this if she went to the school he wants?

I think he expects that she'll go back to his house (like she's supposed to on his nights but she refuses to get the public bus by herself and I'm walking distance from her school so either me or the neighbour take her back) and then she won't want to come to mine so he can claim to be RP with more residency and get maintenance out of me.

He does actually earn more than £10k, but £10k was all CMS could find he earns, he works in a family member of his's business though, so we know they're fiddling it. I never persuaded maintenance as it didn't seem worth it for £15 a week that he'd get out of paying if he could.

He denies she has SN.

He doesn’t seem to have any good reasons yet you have many, and your daughters point of view matches yours. Hopefully by the time this even comes to fruition it will be too late anyway and obvious in court what he’s doing.

Id be keeping a log of every single occasion he has failed to collect her from school/wrap around care. Sounds like you’d have a list of hundreds.

What would happen if you didn’t drive her there and said he had to collect her as he’s not paid for it?

Righto, just to pick one thing…

Even if you had absolutely equal 50/50 care no maintenance would be payable regardless of the income (non) disparity. He’s barking up the wrong tree there, but it’s a tree beloved of the controlling males among us.

I suspect the court will side with your daughter and you. Even better would be if the court date took a really long time to come around and she’d already started and settled there ;) I’d say spending out on the lawyer is probably a good use of money. Hopefully this will be the last of it.

Also, I would really stop facilitating childcare and meals on his days. Cheeky devil. He wants 40% contact time, or more? Then he does all the arranging on his time. Stop being available. People like him will take a mile given an inch. Plus, if you stop facilitating he’ll throw a hissy, come up with some crapola unsuitable plans or non-plans, and your DD will vote with her feet. That will just be bringing forward the inevitable.

The religion thing is a load of nonsense. Many schools in England are faith based, and many atheist, agnostic and other religion children attend them.

I think you and your DD have a very strong, well thought out factual basis for her attendance at her chosen school. Your ex really does not if it’s as you say. Also, the court will definitely want to know her views and they will be given weighted consideration. I am sure you are very proud she can vocalise what she wants and why. I am pleased you have a good lawyer, if only to be able to put your case across in an organised and child focused way. You have done this extremely well in this thread but It can be stressful in the family court trying to represent yourself so I believe this will take a lot of the pressure off you. Please try not to worry I am very hopeful your daughter will get the school of her choice. I wouldn’t be surprised if the court took something of a dim view that this is even being brought before them and will question why your ex feels it’s in your child’s best interests to bring this matter to court with the background you have explained. I think they will hope an agreement can be reached between you given the benefits of her preferred school and why she feels so strongly about going there. With the domestic history you have explained it would seem this may be more about control than what is best for your child. The courts are very experienced in seeing through this when this happens. I caveat this with there are always two side to a story and I only have one. However, if it’s as you say pls reassure your daughter and try not to worry. Very difficult I know but I can imagine your daughter is feeling very anxious which is very sad and the courts are back logged and so it can take some time to bring a case to court which adds to their stress (and yours) when they should be enjoying school, friends and home rather than worrying about such things. Good luck x

I have to share the DLA now. I give him 40% and then he's supposed to give me £15 a week (£72 a month), so he gets £160ish a month out of me with nothing back. Solicitor says because of the DLA I'd be expected to give him 50% in the event of 50/50. I don't actually mind, even though I end up paying for everything DD needs.

I'm not facilitating his childcare. He leaves DD on the street outside school before school starts and she chooses to walk to mine and spend the time with me. I am home as I don't start work until 9.30am so don't need to leave until the time she leaves for school anyway.

Similarly he expects DD to wait for the public bus and get that to his town to then either let herself in or wait to be picked up by him from somewhere. She chooses to come to mine after school and I choose or the neighbour chooses to drive her back to ExHs. She won't get the bus alone, so other than getting the bus with her there's not much else I could do.

My solicitor says as long as it's DDs choice to not get the bus/stay outside school until the gates open and I am putting her safety first i.e. is it safer she's with me/the neighbour than stood outside school/on the public bus given she has SEN so is younger than her age in some areas, then I'm doing nothing wrong.

I would stop driving her there. He can come and collect her. If he drops off her to school too early then can’t she just go in?

What would your solicitor say if you stopped driving her over there? He cannot force her together thw public bus I wouldn't have thought especially as she's send... however I guess that's an argument for him to want her in his area so you don't have to drive her on his days... but you would on yours...

It's a shame there are spaces in his town. Here what you got on allocation day would be all you'd hope to get. I take it he didn't challenge the application when it went in?

Wraparound starts at 7.45am but they go in through a different entrence and you have to buzz in for that (I use wraparound myself a few times a week as DD wants to go when her best friend goes), if you're not booked in you can't just go in.

The normal gates open at 8.45am, they're locked until then so she can't just walk in, she has to wait on the street until then and he drops her around 8am.

He tried to argue with me that the school in his town should be top preference. Low birth year and not a huge amount of movement in the area we live so the chances are we'd get top preference as 99% of children did in our county. I just told him we'd have to put the application in and see.

My solicitor said about the driving over there I cannot be stopped from dropping her where he asks her to wait for him as it's a public place (think cafe/supermarket but he doesn't give her any money so she'd just have to hang around) but he could ask me not to drop her home. DD cannot be forced to get the bus alone, and if I'm not willing to pay for my own ticket as I drive (I'd need a return) there's nothing he can do - she has a bus pass he pays for yearly so there's no money there.

Leaving her on the street for 45 minutes before she can go into school is negligent. You must document and report it to the court that sorted your child arrangements. And tell school!

Can you therefore withdraw contact on those days because he’s leaving her alone on a street for 45 mins? Is there a way of bringing this to the court? Notify the school first maybe? So it’s on record. Or write done all the dates he’s done this so far and use that.

I don’t see how they could make your drive her there after school. Tell him to collect her himself. It sounds like if he can’t be bothered with any of this then it won’t last long.

If he's dropping the child off 45 minutes early for school that is neglect and something should be done.
If he isn't collecting her from school so she is walking to yours I'd not be driving her to dad's...he can call and explain why his child hasn't been collected appropriately.
Do the school realise she's simply being left outside school.
This is a bigger issue than high school, and I'd actually stop contact because of it - especially if your child has some SN.
If she doesn't get on the bus HE should be collecting her!

Oh and if he doesn't use her DLA for her disability then stop giving it to him! A court won't force a resident parent to do that!

Because she is Year 6 and Schools Policy is Years 5 and 6 can go to and from school alone, school weren't concerned. The 60/40 arrangement was only decided in court in 2023.

I'm not happy about it but there's not much I can do.

I will stop dropping her at his house but I will not force her to get the bus so will continue to drop at the meeting point.

It's court ordered that I have to give him 40% of it and the Child Maintenance Service won't touch us while we have a court order. The expiry date on the order is the day before DDs 18th Birthday.

A judge would allow 12 year olds to choose how much contact she had with each parent. (I don’t know how much her SN would affect the age that she’s deemed competent )

I hope that DD’s opinion would be listened to if you went to court.