Is there any point challenging this PCN?

[SealMum]

I've received a PCN from the council for "31J Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited". £130 or £65 if I pay in 14 days. I've attached a screenshot of the incriminating section of the video of the offence - just wondering if there is any point challenging it? My wheels are at most on the line at the edge of the box and I'm not impeding anyone. I appreciate the small print of the law probably says that on the line means in the box but I'm about to enter the unpaid period of my maternity leave so it would be helpful not to have to pay it and it really does feel like a victimless "crime"!

No, you’re in the box so you pay the fine. It doesn’t matter whether you’re in the box fully or partially.

You have to be able to clear the junction before entering the box, so no.

Does 'on the line' actually equate to 'partially in the box' though? Seems to be stretching the definition of 'in' to me...

@SealMum I agree this seems really unfair. I would probably just pay the fine to avoid further hassle (as that sort of thing really stresses me out).

You could maybe try arguing that the lines of the box junction were too faded to be recognisable as a box junction?

On first glance, I thought "I wouldn't even know what this zigzag thing is" until I read your post and saw it's supposed to be a box junction.

Also, because of its unusual elongated shape, that combined with the faded lines makes it quite difficult to recognise.

If it's feasible, I would maybe visit it again and take some photos at ground/car level (not while driving, obviously!) and see whether it's actually visible as a box junction from there.

Seems unfair to me - you could (and I'm assuming have) misjudged it by an inch or two, from quite a distance away as the box is fairly long.

I got caught for similar some years ago. Back wheels barely over the line - and not my fault as some arse of a van driver cut in front of me at the last minute. I appealed but had to pay.

You might have a slim chance of arguing that the box itself is not lawfully designed because it's bigger than it needs to be.

https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/box-design

That website has loads of other stuff if you're in the mood to fight your corner.

The paint is so well worn down that it is impossible to see in your door mirror if you are clear of it. I would appeal.
If they aren't going to keep it painted they can't fine you for not being able to see the edge of it.

If your brake lights weren't on I'd challenge it, but they clearly are and you haven't cleared the yellow box.

Of course they can, and will.

Untrue.

Several people appealed parking fines on our road due the the yellow lines being very faded and covered in leaves.
They had the fines rescinded.

I think @LonginesPrime has a good point, and also on the site below it refers to 'boxes not being bigger than necessary', one could argue that the box in your photo does not need to go further than bollard.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/yellow-box-junction-guidance-rac/

'Chartered engineer Sam Wright, who created the report for the RAC, highlighted that the main design principle was for box junctions to “be no bigger than is necessary to prevent vehicles obstructing through movements”.'

The Highway Code doesnt refer to ‘in’ the box though. It states
‘You may enter a yellow box junction when your exit is clear and there is enough space on the other side of the junction for your vehicle to clear the box completely without stopping’
So the OP didn’t do that or else she wouldn’t have got caught with her back wheels in it.
Might count as too large though.

But if there's a few inches in it (which looking at the screenshot again, I think there was), there actually was enough space for her to 'clear the box completely' if she'd pulled forward just a tiny bit more. I stand by my comment that I think this is unfair - the OP clearly wasn't obstructing anyone.

Thank you all very much - there's some really helpful advice here and I'll appeal it next time I'm naptrapped!

I know it’s an old thread, but for the benefit of others in a similar situation this advice is completely wrong.

The law says you shouldn’t stop in a yellow box ‘due to the presence of a stationary vehicle’. In this case it looks like the OP had room to move forward slightly to clear the box, and therefore isn’t stopped in the box due to the presence of the stationary vehicle.

If the OP had appealed on that basis she would have won.