Primary school mixed sex toilets - school claiming this is allowed

[jellyjester]

Hi, my DD is in year 5 and mentioned that the toilets they have are 4 cubicles in a room which are shared between all the children in year 5 and 6 (with gaps above and below the doors and walls of each cubicle, and sinks outside the cubicles). These toilets are for the use of all boys and girls in those years and there's no alternative provision.

I looked up the guidelines and emailed the school as I was concerned she may get her period soon and need more privacy. They've said that their cubicles comply with the guidelines here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/410294/Advice_on_standards_for_school_premises.pdf
because the school fulfil this criteria:

"b) separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time"

School have said that as each toilet (cubicle) is lockable and intended for use by 1 pupil at a time that they've been advised that they're following the guidance and are in line with a large number of schools around the country with similar types of school buildings.

I think the guideline is talking about a room, not a cubicle and in fact later in the guideline it says this
"Where there is unisex provision (under ISS 23A (1) (b) or SPR 4 (2)), the privacy of the occupant needs to be ensured and this will be achieved by, for example, having adequate enclosure and a full height door."

I've looked up the Women's place, safe school alliance and sex matters guidance on it and they agree with my interpretation.

Who is right - me or school? Thanks!

This is terrible for your child. I remember going into school in year 5 because my DD didn’t want to get changed for PE in front of the boys, but school said it was only allowed in year 6.

Wow
I hope someone comes along who can help with the legal stuff cos this sounds awful

The wording you've found in the guidelines is drawn directly from the relevant regulations (the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012). I am not aware of any court decisions on this, but my view is that a cubicle is clearly not a room and the school is wrong. I suspect that, if the school checked, they would find that most if not all of the schools that have unisex facilities like this also provide either separate boys and girls facilities or a separate toilet in a room that can be locked from the inside. This sounds like a unisex facility with no alternative which, in my view, is a breach of the regulations.

I'm not familiar with the law.

I used to go into a lot of schools for various reasons for work and these set ups are increasingly common in new build schools and when schools refurbish.

I wouldn’t be happy about that for that age of child. Early years yes, given that they are usually only just toilet trained or still learning, but not when girls are starting puberty.

Im fully in favour of unisex toilets, but when they are a separate room, (ie walls and door with basin inside) not just a cubicle.

Thanks for all the viewpoints. Yes particularly for year 6 it seems very strange to me that they don't see a problem. They've said they know of other schools where throughout primary including year 6 this is the same setup to what they provide.

They did change PE kit policy a few years ago - the kids used to get changed into PE kit in the classrooms / cloakrooms then they changed it so they have to come into school wearing PE kit on those days (ie they got rid of all classroom changing altogether). That was to make the school day more efficient though I guess possibly also because they don't have space for older kids to get changed in separate spaces for boys and girls.

@prh47bridge yes I agree surely what they're providing is the very definition of unisex toilets. The point of the rules is to segregate from age 8. It's not as if they even put any signs on each cubicle designating some to be used by boys and some to be used by girls.

I mean if they provided this to you in your workplace, would you say the toilet provision was single sex, or, unisex?? It seems a bit of a no brainer to me.

If they are officially breaching regulations, and won't back down with polite discussion, what can I do about it?

You need to get more parents involved. No one asked for any of this and it’s amazing how schools have become so draconian.

You can refer to chair of governors or complaints service at council children's services

The school is wrong. What they have is a facility which is available for both sexes, thus ensuring neither sex has access to private facilities.
First of all, send them an email asking them how they are safeguarding the children seeing as the toilets are now mixed sex.
Ask them to take you into the toilets out of school hours and demonstrate how a child’s right to dignity, privacy and safety is being upheld.
Ask them how they are ensuring that the religious rights of Muslim or Jewish girls in the school are being upheld as they would be in a state of undress whilst in the presence of the opposite sex.
Ask how they can ensure that children do not stop using the toilets as there is no privacy from the opposite sex.
Speak to the parent Governor to tell them about your concerns.
I’m assuming that none of the toilets are actually fitted with urinals - therefore up to 60 children have to queue to use the loos at break - usually no longer than 15 minutes.
Ask them if, as a result, they're extending the break times.
Ask them how often the toilets will be cleaned seeing as the boys will likely be pissing all over the seats.

I would not take the approach outlined by Soontobe60. For example, the parent governor is not the appropriate person to speak to.

You've already cited the relevant guidance. As you've identified, with unisex provision, the privacy of the occupant needs to be ensured. It states that this will be achieved by, for example, having adequate enclosure and a full height door. It doesn't, and I think this is the problem you face, state that you must have a full height door. But the implication is that if a full height door is an example of meeting the requirement, all else being equal, the lack of a full height door does not meet the requirement and as such, your school is not compliant.

Note further, unlike as some people claim, there are not prescribed ratios, nor does there have to be a wash basin in the cubicle.

So what should you do?

First, email the head teacher and CC the school's safeguarding officer. Cite the regulations and explain how the facilities do not meet them. It could be (just possibly) that there is some other facility available that you don't know about, in which case they can tell you about it. It's up to you, but I honestly think you'll get a better response by taking the emotion out of it. Don't get into why it matters, the sensibilities of your child, or even, at this stage, the safeguarding risks. Just state that the regulations are not being followed and you want it changed.

If you've already done that, or if the headteacher replies with an answer that isn't satisfactory to you, write to the clerk of the governing body of the school, CCing the chair of governors, saying you wish to raise a formal complaint about the headteacher's response to your issue. They are obliged to investigate it. Check the school's website for their complaints policy which will explain how the complaint will be handled. If the governors' response doesn't satisfy you then you are entitled to appeal (still within the school). Most likely the appeal will get the same result, but it's important to follow the process. You can then appeal externally, but likely you'll only succeed if the internal appeals process was not followed correctly.

At any point, but certainly if the appeals fail, you can also file a complaint with OFSTED, and with the Local Authority (most have a MASH - multi agency safeguarding hub), citing the safeguarding risks of continued disregard of the regulations

If you still don't get satisfaction, try the Local Authority more broadly, your local MP and/or the local press.

Do keep in mind that most schools wouldn't choose to be foul of the regulations and clearly they do need to follow them. But most schools are also very short on money, and changing their facilities is an expensive business. So even if the will is there to make the change, it's not trivial and I wouldn't expect it to be an easy process. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be done of course, I'm just saying that the resistance might not come from a place of contempt for your viewpoint.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

To me the guideline means a room that includes a handwashing sink and isn't a cubicle with gaps above/below (like a disabled loo basically), so the school aren't meeting the standards.
Do they have a disabled facility she could use if she did get her period?

I'm not in the UK so probably different regulations but that Really doesn't sound right! At my child's school, they have unisex bathrooms but they are all separate rooms, "on an external wall of the building so each toilet is in a separate lockable room- toilet sink and hand towels all in the room . I don't understand their interpretation, every bathroom has cubicles that doesn't make them rooms?

They've now said my DD can use a disabled loo if she prefers (it's not that close to her classroom so I'm not sure how it would work with her having to walk through the school to get there). But they aren't saying that they'll change the general policy so the other girls will still be using the mixed sex cubicles.

@WomanInTheWall23 thank you for your detailed advice. The headteacher wrote the most recent reply to my email so they have engaged. But they still don't agree that they're breaking the guidance.

Is it guidance or is it a law anyhow? I'm not sure if they HAVE to follow it?

This particular guidance is drawn from the School Premises Regulations, so it is the law. They have to follow it. However, if pupils can use the disabled loo they are in compliance. The regulations don't prevent them having unisex facilities provided they also have either single sex facilities or a lockable room.

@prh47bridge is there a legal definition of a room in this context?

I suspect (& hope) that the school is wrong. I certainly wouldn't be happy if in your DDs position. Fortunately we didn't have mixed-sex toilets or changing rooms.

School have said that as each toilet (cubicle) is lockable and intended for use by 1 pupil at a time that they've been advised that they're following the guidance and are in line with a large number of schools around the country with similar types of school buildings.

They are misapplying the guidelines. I mean, all school toilets are intended to be used by one pupil at a time, no matter what format FFS.

They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that they are in line with the recent trend beloved of secondary schools, which are lockable floor to ceiling fully enclosed rooms, and not standard toilet cubicles with gaps above and below.

They are not.

Incidentally, fully enclosed rooms have a whole host of safeguarding issues:

What if a pupil passes out inside and no one knows?
What if a pupil pushes someone inside to assault them, and no one knows?

So why they are held up as some kind of gold standard provision for schools I’ll never know.

@Jellycats4life yeh exactly, I don't know of any toilet cubicles that are designed to be used by two people at once?? Pretty disingenuous argument they're trying to use isn't it 🙄

The regulations don't have a definition of the term, so the courts would assume the normal English meaning of the word.

OP you might find this useful.

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Single_Sex_Toilets_and_Changing_Facilities_factsheet

As prh47bridge said, given they are offering an alternative they are in accordance with the law (albeit perhaps not the spirit, depending on how readily accessible and how well publicised the availability of the alternative is).

You could write to the governing board and point this out, though I doubt they'll do anything about it as they're not obliged to. It might, perhaps, encourage the head teacher to make the existence of the alternative more widely known, which might be a good thing.

The trouble with the factsheet linked to by lifeturnsonadime, i.e. the suggestion that self contained rooms with floor to ceiling doors, which is in compliance with the law, are ideal,* is that it overlooks the genuine issues around fully self-contained rooms raised by Jellycats4life. *So I am not sure there is an easy answer that suits every situation.

My daughter’s school is like this (north Herts). There are single sex toilets a short walk away though. Is it the same at your school? It is only the two temp blocks they have that have shared toilets. The main building is all separate ones.

Our local primary school declared all the kids' toilets to be unisex (the teachers' loos remained single sex, strangely enough ). They were pretty grim, with wee all over the seats. Some girls refused to use them at all.

I understand that school resources are scarce, but I think individual groups of toilets could be allocated to boys or to girls and this would just require signs to be put up. So the toilets outside the canteen would be labelled girls' toilets and the ones by the library would be labelled boys' toilets, for example. Most primary schools have plenty of clusters of toilets in my experience, so the children need never be more than a couple of minutes walk from the nearest appropriate loos.

It's a small school with 30 kids /one class per year and these are the only toilets (apart from the single disabled loo which as I mentioned is a little walk away through the school from the classrooms). Each set of toilets aren't accessible from the main school corridor, they're just accessible through the classrooms IYSWIM so perhaps more difficult to designate certain ones for girls, and others for boys as if they did then some of the kids would have to walk out their classroom, along a corridor and through another classroom to access a different set of toilets.

Not sure what a good solution would be, I guess it would either cause disruption or major expense which might be why the head is saying that are following the guidelines when they're not.