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Is this trust even valid?!

8 replies

fitforflight · 10/12/2024 16:41

A family member has come to me asking for help sorting their paperwork relating to a trust. She will be taking professional, paid advice but in the meantime I'm looking here.

What type of solicitor would we need to consult?

The pictures attached are the entirety of the trust paperwork. A property was placed in trust by H+W for both adult children.

The paperwork (in my opinion) looks shoddy and very basic, we wanted to know if the trust was actually valid based on:

The witnesses haven't signed their name or address, in fact my family member can't even work out who the signature I've scribbled out in blue actually is.

The signature scribbled in yellow is from the wife of the first trustee. I didn't think a relative could witness this sort of thing.

Husband and wife then divorced and upon divorce husband signed the third attached picture relinquishing interest in the trust. This hasn't been witnessed at all! Is this valid too?

Is this trust even valid?!
Is this trust even valid?!
Is this trust even valid?!
OP posts:
prh47bridge · 10/12/2024 17:06

Whilst it is normal for a witness to print their name and address, it is not a legal requirement. It is, however, good practice so that the witness can be traced if necessary.

There is nothing in legislation to prohibit a spouse from witnessing a signature, although it is not ideal.

fitforflight · 10/12/2024 17:09

Thank you. Everything I've read says they must be unrelated, is that not the case then?

OP posts:
Another2Cats · 10/12/2024 18:09

I believe it is not the case with a deed of trust.

There are different rules with wills. Perhaps that is what you were thinking of?

A spouse or a beneficiary cannot witness a will.

fitforflight · 10/12/2024 19:21

Various Google searches show they can't be related however the internet is full of unreliable information so I can understand if that's incorrect. Is this, from the .gov site correct about needing addresses?

Is this trust even valid?!
OP posts:
FlabbergastedByTheGorgons · 10/12/2024 19:45

It can be valid without the witnesses writing in their addresses. Including an address makes it easier to trace the witnesses if there are questions about the signing but is NOT needed for the deed to be valid.

fitforflight · 10/12/2024 20:39

Thank you.

Does anyone have any idea about the 3rd picture, where the husband has given up his interest in the trust. Should that have been witnessed? Does it matter if it wasn't?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 10/12/2024 23:45

fitforflight · 10/12/2024 19:21

Various Google searches show they can't be related however the internet is full of unreliable information so I can understand if that's incorrect. Is this, from the .gov site correct about needing addresses?

That page is referring specifically to what the Land Registry look for when examining a deed. What they want goes beyond what is required by law.

In many situations a family member cannot witness a signature. However, a deed of trust is one of the situations where they can.

Imisschocolate17 · 10/12/2024 23:57

I think this would legally stand as valid too. It's not that shoddy, I've seen plenty worse. The 3rd photo has been signed "as simple contract", it doesn't necessarily need to have been signed as a deed (ie with a witness) unless there was no consideration involved. You've mentioned context of divorce so if for example it was part of sharing and splitting out assets then they may well have been some consideration to him for giving up his interest such as him keeping something else or being relieved of something else financially.

My reading of these is that it is clear what the intentions are and the couple of less than ideal but likely still binding execution formalities wouldn't be influential enough to override it - but you will only know if you test it, so depends what the risks are in not complying with its terms.

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