Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Family living rent free - please help!

139 replies

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 13:57

I'll try to summarise and really hope someone can help, I do have a solicitor but they aren't coming back to me!

I have an aunt and her boyfriend who have been living in my second home rent free, with a view to buying it. They have been there 12 months. They have materially damaged the property.

That sale is about to fall through due to appalling, abusive behaviour on their behalf.

What is my legal position to get them out? There is no verbal or written agreement with me, they were never asked to pay rent, they were just there as I am kind.

I want them out

Ideally I also want them to make good the changes they have made but understand this may not be possible

Any advice?

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:50

Nosleepforthismum · 04/12/2024 21:48

Go through with the sale. Trust me when I say there is way more people than you’d think that turn into unreasonable twats during a house purchase. You’d get rid of these ones at a huge hassle and cost and then what? Start the whole thing again with a new buyer who may be equally as difficult? Grit your teeth and reply factually to your solicitor about what you are prepared to do before exchange and what the buyer will need to sort out themselves. You’re nearly there. Just take it on the chin and know that in a few days you’ll be free of them

Another buyer wouldn't be family, wouldn't know my mums address, wouldn't be able to go to her home and abuse her, wouldn't know our facebooks to send messages, wouldn't be living in the property rent free and wouldn't be damaging it

and breathe!

I agree with what else you've said though

OP posts:
Spirallingdownwards · 04/12/2024 21:52

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:37

It's really normal to avoid inheritance tax in this way, it's not a fiddle

It is a fiddle if they can take it back at any time and you literally have no beneficial interest in the property.

If it was a proper gift to avoid later IHT liability they would have no interest in it and would not be able to demand it back. Also they would not be able to allow people to live in it. Only you as the owner would be able to. They have remained the owners in every way except on paper.

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:53

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:37

It's really normal to avoid inheritance tax in this way, it's not a fiddle

Yes it is. It's in your name, but the entire family agrees that's only on paper and accepts the property is effectively theirs, that's the fiddle. It's why there's a mess. The fact that "everyone does it" doesn't make it less of a fiddle

It's in your name, if it was accepted it was yours, aunt wouldn't even be living there in the first place and you wouldn't be feeling a moral obligation to give the house funds back to your parents. It would just be your property that you were doing whatever you wanted with and you wouldn't have handed decisions over to your parents.

You are the orchestrator of your own downfall here, to a certain extent. You and your parents combined. If none of you had tried to avoid inheritance tax then none of you would be in this position you're in now.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:00

I don't have an issue with the IHT thing, that was the original goal which has now been amended which I agreed to. It was intended to avoid IHT but not as a fiddle, and it worked for my siblings.

If all works out, another property will be bought / money gifted which will have the same result assuming my parents survive 7 years.

Maybe not another property given this situation!

The issue really was the fact that my aunt was allowed to buy - and yes my lack of a say has contributed I recognise that.

This property was bought when I was 20 ish I really didn't know a great deal about it, our lives have all changed a huge amount since then and some of the changes couldn't have been foreseen. We've had to pivot which I was happy to do to help my parents.

Had I ended up living in the house as my siblings did theirs, it would have been straightforwardly mine.

As it happens my life took a different path which meant that house was used differently - my mum lived there for some time, then it was empty with a view to being sold, and we had a conversation about me not needing the money and them needing it.

OP posts:
Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 22:05

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:47

I agree I've been foolish @Beigepuppydog

My aunt was moved in and this was all agreed before i knew anything about it

I disagreed vehemently but it was too late

I don't even get the pleasure of saying 'I told you so' to my parents as they are so messed up over it all

It wasn't too late, legally. It was the point at which you should have told parents/aunt/boyfriend it's your house and to get out, changed the locks etc. You had a choice and chose to go along with it. If you weren't a victim of emotional abuse by your parents then that decision lands squarely on your shoulders. You need to understand your responsibilities and where you went wrong otherwise you're at risk of sabotaging yourself like this again in future.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:06

I'm really not a victim of emotional abuse

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:08

Oh right I see what you're saying

Yes it's entirely my fault I didn't boot them out

It would have made life a nightmare for my mum jf if I had

It would have felt completely inappropriate and that wasn't my choice to make

Still feels like that is the case even with hindsight

My parents shouldn't have offered to begin with

OP posts:
Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 22:09

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:06

I'm really not a victim of emotional abuse

So you really can't play the victim then, can you. It's not all someone else's fault, you're the legal owner of the house, it's on you.

Edit: sorry, cross posted.
Yes it was your decision to make. Not your mum's. Yes I agree she shouldn't have given your aunt permission to live there, it wasn't her house so wasn't her permission to give. That's what comes of tax fiddles and people thinking they own things they don't, I suppose.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:17

@Beigepuppydog in fairness
when we moved back to the UK my parents were advised to buy property for this very purpose, it was not a whim

It's been muddled because I didn't live in it and basically said for years it was essentially theirs just in my name

Didn't even realise I could have transferred it to my mum to remove myself from this issue

HOWEVER

Ownership aside, there is still an issue of an invited long term visitor whose invitation has run out that we may need to get to leave

Apparently she isn't a squatter as was invited originally

There isn't much advice online about non tenant non squatter lunatic family members and how to evict them quickly and legally

I quite like the lock change chuck their shit out option
My dad will too
My mum will not

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:18

@Beigepuppydog I'm also not trying to play the victim, I want advice on how to get an unwanted family member out, following a relationship breakdown. The ownership is secondary to that, all that means here is the person who has to action whatever's needed.

And that was my initial question in fairness.

OP posts:
QueenOfHiraeth · 04/12/2024 22:19

I'm shocked you are even trying to justify evading tax. Decent people do not do this so I'm struggling to feel sympathy here, it really is not ok.
Your family are all as bad as each other because your aunt's bad behaviour has been enabled by yours and your parents' desire to cheat the system

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:24

Gifting children a property isn't tax evasion, it's a legitimate way to pass on assets

It's why the seven year rule exists - it's literally how to gift

www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts

This has changed due to family circumstance and me not living on the house or treating it as mine

If it makes it easier look at it as they gave me a gift and I'm giving it back as they need it and I don't

I also don't want sympathy I want advice about kicking someone out

OP posts:
Mostlyoblivious · 04/12/2024 22:46

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 22:17

@Beigepuppydog in fairness
when we moved back to the UK my parents were advised to buy property for this very purpose, it was not a whim

It's been muddled because I didn't live in it and basically said for years it was essentially theirs just in my name

Didn't even realise I could have transferred it to my mum to remove myself from this issue

HOWEVER

Ownership aside, there is still an issue of an invited long term visitor whose invitation has run out that we may need to get to leave

Apparently she isn't a squatter as was invited originally

There isn't much advice online about non tenant non squatter lunatic family members and how to evict them quickly and legally

I quite like the lock change chuck their shit out option
My dad will too
My mum will not

What’s the phrase - better to seek forgiveness than ask permission - keep your Mum out of the hostile take back until it’s completed - it’s a kindness in the long term

SheilaFentiman · 04/12/2024 22:56

OP, do you own this house and another house? You do know that you will pay capital gains tax on the sale as it isn’t and never has been your primary dwelling?

Agapornis · 04/12/2024 22:58

Legally, I think they're trespassing. You can serve them notice [clarifying that they are a guest, no contract or rent has changed hands, so tenancy rights don't apply], and change the locks once the notice period has run out. If they are threatening and/or assaulting your parents [making this a criminal rather than a civil matter], you could get the police involved. If not, it may be worth looking at a private security company for trespasser eviction.

Please try to ignore the tax evasion/avoidance comments, it's irrelevant to your question.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 23:09

SheilaFentiman · 04/12/2024 22:56

OP, do you own this house and another house? You do know that you will pay capital gains tax on the sale as it isn’t and never has been your primary dwelling?

As already stated, there is no CGT liability due to the money spent on the property, my accountant has already checked the figures, and if there was CGT, my parents would cover it as they have covered all other costs including the increased stamp duty at the point of purchase

OP posts:
healthybychristmas · 04/12/2024 23:12

I don't understand this. You own the house on behalf of your parents and your mum's sister is living there. Is she meant to be buying the house from you and messing you about?

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 23:20

healthybychristmas · 04/12/2024 23:12

I don't understand this. You own the house on behalf of your parents and your mum's sister is living there. Is she meant to be buying the house from you and messing you about?

Essentially yes

But she is also being verbally abusive to my mum via message and in person

As well as obstructive with the sale (solicitors view which i share)

Added insult to injury all their money is sat earning interest while they live rent free delaying the sale

And they have damaged the house

OP posts:
Tinkerbell2209 · 05/12/2024 06:34

You need to get advice from an Eviction Specialist. There is a really good Landlord and Tenant Advice UK Group over on Facebook who should be able to help you.

femfemlicious · 05/12/2024 06:38

Sab06 · 04/12/2024 19:33

I would just wait they live for work or shopping and get in, change the locks and put their stuff outside. They are not tenants so not protected by any binding contract. What are they realistically going to do?? get the police involved? it’s a civil matter. They have no leg to stand on. They will pick their stuff and leave. Good luck!

I agree!. I doubt they will take any legal action!.

SheilaFentiman · 05/12/2024 06:44

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 23:09

As already stated, there is no CGT liability due to the money spent on the property, my accountant has already checked the figures, and if there was CGT, my parents would cover it as they have covered all other costs including the increased stamp duty at the point of purchase

OK, if you say so.

If your parents want to gift you money again, they should just gift you money. Then you can invest it how you like.

Soontobe60 · 05/12/2024 06:51

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:19

@Beigepuppydog it really wasn't a gift in that way, it was never intended for my use until my parents died

To keep the money or behave like it's mine is dishonest and not what we agreed when they first put it in my name

And I love my parents and have a good relationship with them

This mess is destroying my mum she has no idea what to do

To buy a house and put it in someone else’s name is dishonest if its done to avoid paying IHT too.
OP, do you realise you’ll have a bill for Capital Gains Tax when this house is sold? That will be your bill, not your parents, as the house is your property. Do you also realise that if you choose to run off with the proceeds of the sale theres sod all your parents could do to get the money back off you?

CautiousLurker1 · 05/12/2024 07:01

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 19:30

The sale to them is about to fall through

We were aiming for exchange and completion on Friday but they are playing silly buggers

We are in England

I'll try that FB group as well

When I say no verbal agreement I mean it, my mum is the one who let them live there! I can't stand them and haven't spoken to them in years.

Then you need to start eviction proceedings.

SheilaFentiman · 05/12/2024 07:02

CautiousLurker1 · 05/12/2024 07:01

Then you need to start eviction proceedings.

She hasn’t even asked them to leave yet….

Sandwichgen · 05/12/2024 07:15

I hope you have lots of photos of the house as it was when they moved in. Please take an opportunity of going round there and taking photos of the present condition before d-day (Friday). Then if the sale does not go through, and they vindictively damage anything, you have evidence of that. It is your property, they have no tenancy, they are guests, they can’t stop you going in.

then I would have your solicitor wire a letter saying exchange and completion happens on Friday whether the range cooker is there or not; it doesn’t, they are required to leave, having no legal right to remain. I don’t think you can start any sort of proceedings until they have been actually asked to leave. If the sale doesn’t go through, and they don’t move after a week or so, start proceedings