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Family living rent free - please help!

139 replies

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 13:57

I'll try to summarise and really hope someone can help, I do have a solicitor but they aren't coming back to me!

I have an aunt and her boyfriend who have been living in my second home rent free, with a view to buying it. They have been there 12 months. They have materially damaged the property.

That sale is about to fall through due to appalling, abusive behaviour on their behalf.

What is my legal position to get them out? There is no verbal or written agreement with me, they were never asked to pay rent, they were just there as I am kind.

I want them out

Ideally I also want them to make good the changes they have made but understand this may not be possible

Any advice?

OP posts:
ThatIsNotMyNameSoWhyAreYouCallingMeThat · 04/12/2024 21:13

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:09

No one has told me morally and practically, that's my own view

It really is my mums house it's just in my name

It's a huge headache

It is not your mum’s house is her name is nowhere near it. Is this some sort of deprivation of assets fiddle?

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:13

Thank you all for advice btw

I think waiting to see how Friday pans out is prob the best advice and I'm going to have to get over my feelings

And calm my dad down

Another issue is a range cooker needs removing (as per the sale documents) and they aren't granting access

But they want it gone!

Mind boggling

OP posts:
SalsaLights · 04/12/2024 21:13

Pulling out is going to cost money because you will need to get a court order to evict them. And then to enforce the eviction if they refuse to leave on the deadline day. All whilst still not paying rent and doubtless causing even more damage to the house.

The pragmatic thing to do would be to get the sale to them to go through. Get your conveyancing solicitor to send them an ultimatum: that they need to complete by Friday or you will withdraw the property from sale and take legal proceedings to have them removed from the house. Hopefully the threat will be enough to get them to co-operate, but if they don't then at least you can start the process to get them out.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:17

@ThatIsNotMyNameSoWhyAreYouCallingMeThat not deprivation of assets, they bought each of their children a home when we went to uni, but I had one already so didn't get bought one then , they wanted to equalise things so bought this house in my name, but they need the house back

Yes goal was to reduce inheritance tax which has been successful for my siblings houses

Obv the money from this house will go back to my parents estate and so it'll be liable for IHT

hopefully it won't be for many years!

Deprivation of assets shouldn't be an issue; they have plans for if either of them need care plus have other property which can be realised if needed, it's just less easy to sell

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Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:18

SheilaFentiman · 04/12/2024 21:02

It's not my money it's my parents and my dad wants to walk as well, so there is conflict

How is it your parents’ money if it is your house?

This! It stopped being "your parents money" the day they put the house in your name. If they wanted to retain ownership of their money and have any say in how the house was used/sold then they should have put the house in their names solely/joint names with you. They don't own it, any money from it is yours, who lives there and who it's sold to is your decision. It's that simple.

If, after the sale, you choose to give a pile of money to your parents then that's your decision. It won't be returning their money though because it isn't their money, they gave it to you by putting the house in your name.

Whatever you do, don't go through life acting like other people own you and like you can't make your decisions without others approval, just because someone decided to buy you a house. Any gift that comes with strings attached isn't a gift at all, it's a means of control.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:19

@Beigepuppydog it really wasn't a gift in that way, it was never intended for my use until my parents died

To keep the money or behave like it's mine is dishonest and not what we agreed when they first put it in my name

And I love my parents and have a good relationship with them

This mess is destroying my mum she has no idea what to do

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Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:29

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:09

No one has told me morally and practically, that's my own view

It really is my mums house it's just in my name

It's a huge headache

Ok if that's how you choose to view it then it needn't be a headache at all. Simply have your solicitor draw up transfer of ownership documents (no sale, zero funds exchanged, just a simple transfer), naming your mum as the new owner, for mum to sign.

Mum has "her house back" like she wants and like you think she deserves.

She can then sort out the mess she created by letting a pair of arseholes live there.

Next time your parents want to give you something, have them transfer the cash into your bank account then purchase whatever it is yourself.

Your parents have done absolutely nothing with this "gift" except mess you around and give you a headache. They even have other properties they could sell instead to release funds, ones they actually do own themselves. There was no need for them to have done any of this. Thinking they can take back a gift is just despicable behaviour. A gift once given belongs to the recipient.

Spirallingdownwards · 04/12/2024 21:31

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:11

They paid for it initially with a goal of reducing inheritance tax, in the end that did not materialise and they need it sold to realise the money they put into it

I have my own home which is why this is classed as a second home, I've literally invested nothing into it

But I hate these people and how they treat my mum ( it's mums sister)
So does my dad

And the final say does sit with me

And it's my time being used up to deal with this

As your second home though you will be liable for capital gains tax (or will your parents cover that?)

Spirallingdownwards · 04/12/2024 21:32

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:29

Ok if that's how you choose to view it then it needn't be a headache at all. Simply have your solicitor draw up transfer of ownership documents (no sale, zero funds exchanged, just a simple transfer), naming your mum as the new owner, for mum to sign.

Mum has "her house back" like she wants and like you think she deserves.

She can then sort out the mess she created by letting a pair of arseholes live there.

Next time your parents want to give you something, have them transfer the cash into your bank account then purchase whatever it is yourself.

Your parents have done absolutely nothing with this "gift" except mess you around and give you a headache. They even have other properties they could sell instead to release funds, ones they actually do own themselves. There was no need for them to have done any of this. Thinking they can take back a gift is just despicable behaviour. A gift once given belongs to the recipient.

She can't do that as there are still capital gains tax issues and stamp duty issues if she transfers at an undervalue.

TheHistorian · 04/12/2024 21:32

If you haven't been receiving any form of payment from them, there is no tenancy agreement that has been formed. A contact needs to have something given ie rent in exchange for benefit of using the property. Which is good as it would be very difficult to end a tenancy without a written agreement.

They are technically squatters and you will need to serve notice on them to leave. You may need to get bailiffs to enforce eviction. If you go on the government website regarding squatters it will tell you how to evict.

If you haven't exchanged or completed you can withdraw from the intention to sell.

It will probably cause ripples in your family but you can get them out but you need to do it legally following procedure.

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:33

it really wasn't a gift in that way, it was never intended for my use until my parents died

Then it should have been purchased in their names. In future, I advise you not to get involved in anyone else's tax fiddles. That's what is at the heart of this mess, trying to play the system.

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:35

I have my own home which is why this is classed as a second home, I've literally invested nothing into it

It's you who will be hit with capital gains tax from having sold it, if you do sell it.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:36

There is no capital gains to pay due to the amounts spent on improving the property, my accountant has already confirmed this

Honestly it wasn't a gift

I think they were doing a nice thing selling to my aunt trying to help her, but it's backfired

The other properties if they needed to sell would be for their care which includes their main home, I would not expect them to sell that! The other one is overseas and is on the market but it's been 2 years, it's not an easy sale.

Plus aunt couldn't have bought that.

My parents really aren't the bad guys here

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:37

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:33

it really wasn't a gift in that way, it was never intended for my use until my parents died

Then it should have been purchased in their names. In future, I advise you not to get involved in anyone else's tax fiddles. That's what is at the heart of this mess, trying to play the system.

It's really normal to avoid inheritance tax in this way, it's not a fiddle

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:38

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:33

it really wasn't a gift in that way, it was never intended for my use until my parents died

Then it should have been purchased in their names. In future, I advise you not to get involved in anyone else's tax fiddles. That's what is at the heart of this mess, trying to play the system.

And while I respect what you are saying, that's incorrect, the heart of this mess is my parents idiocy in selling to a lunatic which I did advise against

Had this process been conducted normally there would have been no problem!

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:39

In answer to my original question,

It seems that in the absence of a tenancy agreement or rental payments they are classed as squatters and that would be the legal position should I decide to cancel and evict.

That is helpful, thank you

OP posts:
Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:39

Spirallingdownwards · 04/12/2024 21:32

She can't do that as there are still capital gains tax issues and stamp duty issues if she transfers at an undervalue.

Edited

Less of a headache than eviction though. And perhaps her parents might feel some moral obligation to return those costs to OP, to put right financially the mess they have landed her in by allowing someone else to live in her house and then insisting on taking back the funds they put into that house. Although I very much doubt it. I suspect all these moral obligations only run one way in this family.

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:40

I've not paid anything, not council tax, not solicitors costs, not stamps duty. Mum paid it all.

No financial implication to me at all

OP posts:
Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:44

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:38

And while I respect what you are saying, that's incorrect, the heart of this mess is my parents idiocy in selling to a lunatic which I did advise against

Had this process been conducted normally there would have been no problem!

You have to take responsibility for yourself. It was your house to sell not your parents, so your decision to go along with your parents decision to sell to a lunatic (and to allow them to live there in the first place). If you don't want responsibility for something, don't sign your name to it. This includes becoming director of "someone else's" business etc. Putting your name to things makes you legally liable, it makes you responsible for it, it puts control of that thing onto you. Your current position is that you'll happily sign yourself to something (in this case a house) whilst leaving control of it in someone else's hands. It's a very foolish position to put yourself in.

Beigepuppydog · 04/12/2024 21:45

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:40

I've not paid anything, not council tax, not solicitors costs, not stamps duty. Mum paid it all.

No financial implication to me at all

Until the GCT bill hits your doorstep, post sale. I hope your parents pay for that too.

Edit: I missed the bit where you said there wouldn't be any

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:47

I agree I've been foolish @Beigepuppydog

My aunt was moved in and this was all agreed before i knew anything about it

I disagreed vehemently but it was too late

I don't even get the pleasure of saying 'I told you so' to my parents as they are so messed up over it all

OP posts:
PlanningTowns · 04/12/2024 21:48

In terms of the range cooker can you not get it written into the contract that if access is not granted between the hours of 9:00 and 14:00 on the day of completion for the removal of the range cooker as requested by the purchaser then they have no future recourse on requiring its removal by the vendor.

you can put anything into a contact. They can’t want you to remove it but not grant you access - bonkers! The conveyancer should be able to draft something sensible that is agree because they have asked.

Nosleepforthismum · 04/12/2024 21:48

Go through with the sale. Trust me when I say there is way more people than you’d think that turn into unreasonable twats during a house purchase. You’d get rid of these ones at a huge hassle and cost and then what? Start the whole thing again with a new buyer who may be equally as difficult? Grit your teeth and reply factually to your solicitor about what you are prepared to do before exchange and what the buyer will need to sort out themselves. You’re nearly there. Just take it on the chin and know that in a few days you’ll be free of them

EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:48

I did say above there is no CGT liability my accountant has already been through the numbers as that was a concern I had

Again, had there been a bill to pay my parents would cover it

They have covered all other plus accountancy fees even though those were my existing expense

OP posts:
EwwwwwwDavid · 04/12/2024 21:49

PlanningTowns · 04/12/2024 21:48

In terms of the range cooker can you not get it written into the contract that if access is not granted between the hours of 9:00 and 14:00 on the day of completion for the removal of the range cooker as requested by the purchaser then they have no future recourse on requiring its removal by the vendor.

you can put anything into a contact. They can’t want you to remove it but not grant you access - bonkers! The conveyancer should be able to draft something sensible that is agree because they have asked.

Possibly
We do want it back though it cost £3k! Has good resale value apparently

OP posts: