Ex Partner - Gifted Car & Money Owed

[CharlotteS5]

Hi everyone, could someone please offer me some support/advice with a difficult breakup I’m currently going through please?

When we were together my ex had his own car on finance. Everything to do with that car (finance, tax, insurance, fuel) were all in his name. I wasn’t even a named driver on the insurance as I couldn’t reach the pedals properly to drive it as I’m tiny height wise 🙈

He purchased a second car (not on finance) and asked the dealership to put me as both the legal owner and the registered keeper. The garage in error only put me as the registered keeper and not the legal owner. The car was a gift for me. Since separating (it’s been a really bad separation due to countless forms of abuse from him towards me during the relationship), he is demanding the car back. Everything for the car has been in my name from day one (apart from the legal owner as mentioned). Tax hasn’t needed to be paid yet, so I’m unsure who’s name that would be in, insurance is in my name and comes out of my bank (he was a named driver but I removed him when we split up), it’s electric and the charging card is in my name and is also linked up to my home electricity account as I can charge any charging sessions directly to my home electricity bill. He is saying he’s had advice from a solicitor who’s informed him that because there’s no signed and witnessed document signing the car over to me, that legally it’s still his. But I’ve read online that a court would consider what is reasonable and/or likely to have happened. The evidence I have is:

1. Text messages saying “I have gifted you a car” and “keep the car I don’t want it back”.
2. Documents proving all running costs have been in my name and funded by me.
3. Emails with the dealership discussing the fact they had in error not put me as the legal owner as well as the registered keeper. These emails were from and to mine and my partners shared email account which he had full access to and monitored. Not once did he intervene and tell the garage not to change the car into my name (they didn’t anyway as they said they couldn’t, but my partner was happy and comfortable with me trying to get the garage to correct their error.

Am I fighting a losing battle with this do you think?

The second issue is regarding money I’m owed. We always agreed if we split up that he would repay me for the many months we lived together and he didn’t work. There’s also a few other things like items on credit, money owed to family, some arrears. I’ve taken into account anything he purchased for the house. Again there’s no signed document for this but there’s countless text messages where I’ve listed how it’s all been worked out and then on one occasion he’s come back to me offering to save the money up (it does amount to a significant sum of money) and then when he had saved it all up, that he would have the car back. At the time I was stupidly ok with that, but I’ve made it now clear that I’m not after the way he has continued to treat me. So I’ve said I want the money I’m owed and the car I was gifted signed over to me. Again he’s recently text me saying he will sign the car over to me, but this time said he will do it if I then sign a witnesses document saying he then owes me no money (the car is worth slightly less than what he owes me). Again I’ve told him no, he owes me money and he gifted me the car so he can’t sign the gifted car over to me in an attempt to use that to repay me money he owes me separately. He’s then sent me another message saying he doesn’t owe me a penny…despite the prior message essentially agreeing that he does owe me money as he wants to use the gifted car to settle the money owed!

Can anyone please tell me if he is right in saying he doesn’t owe me anything (car and money) as no documents were signed in front of a witness? Or whether I’m right from doing research in that text messages, car running costs, dealership emails etc all prove the car was gifted to me and not just that I was using a car that belongs to him?

On a side note, if he takes me to court, would they also investigate the abuse he subjected me to and charge him accordingly?

Thank you to anyone that’s read all of this! I’d be so thankful for any advice that can be offered 🤞🏻 🙌🏻

It’s lots of separate issues.

Technically as the legal owner he is exactly that, the legal owner. “Gifts” are tricky and especially so when in a relationship as “this is yours to have” is different to “you’re my girlfriend here’s a car for you to use”, and texts aren’t necessarily enough.

The same for the money owed, it’s not as easy as that. You can’t just take someone to small claims court for money someone casually owed you throughout a relationship, everybody coming out of a bad relationship would do this otherwise.

With regards to court looking at abuse, if he was taking you to court over money then no that isn’t something they look at. You would need to bring your own charges against him and have that looked at separately if it’s something you’d like to consider.

What he and I assume his solicitor is talking about is a deed of gift, and yes it’s correct that a deed of gift must be witnessed to ensure its valid.

Thank you for your replies! I seem to
keep finding information online stating that a gift doesn’t need to be in writing, and it’s up to him to prove it wasn’t a gift and for me to prove it was? Otherwise wouldn’t people be taking back gifts here there and everywhere?

There are typical gifts though like jewellery or a new mug and then there is a car. Typically to prove a car was a gift you would need some kind of written document to formalise. I really wouldn’t rely on Google, take legal advice as he has but I would be prepared to accept his legal advice is correct.

What values are involved? Small claims court limits? If you want to spend money on solicitors/court you need to be aware of the legal costs which would be payable if you won or lost.

From an outsiders view, he owed you money but then had enough money at a later stage to buy you a car, for a similar value to the loan, is that correct?

It could be argued that the car was a gift in repayment for monies owed.

A car is a substantial "gift" and you were never the legal owner so I think your case maybe weak as a judge will look at the legalities. The text messages could simply infer he was happy for you to use it solely.

I’d forget all the to-ing and to-ing about money owed for bills etc when he wasn’t working. Courts have no appetite to get involved in squabbles between people who agreed to live together as a cohabiting unit but want compensation because they’re annoyed and upset that the relationship hasn’t worked out.

Or whether I’m right from doing research in that text messages, car running costs, dealership emails etc all prove the car was gifted to me and not just that I was using a car that belongs to him?

What did the dealership acknowledge they hadn’t done? Legal ownership is generally ascertained as the person who purchased the car - there’s no specific document the dealer would provide stating you owned the car and not him, they don’t have any legal authority to do that. They can assign the keeper and, if on finance, whose name the finance is in: is this car on finance? The long and the short of it is that if isn’t open and shut and ultimately sounds like far more stress and bother than it’s worth: in your position I’d give him his car back if nothing else but to be able to draw a line under the relationship, block him and move on with my life. Do you really need all this added hassle?

On a side note, if he takes me to court, would they also investigate the abuse he subjected me to and charge him accordingly?
Issues around the car would be a civil case, and civil courts don’t have jurisdiction over criminal accusations. If you want to report abuse then that’s a separate matter which you would report to the police, who would investigate and decide whether there was evidence to arrest and charge. If you want to report it then do so right away: if you wait, the optics of the whole situation begin to look pretty murky if it’s perceived that your accusations of abuse are retaliation for him taking you to court over the car.

Re "The garage in error only put me as the registered keeper and not the legal owner. " What was it they were supposed to do? Write a review riot in your name? But they wrote it in his name?

I’m guessing they made the invoice etc out to him rather than the OP.

I can't imagine you have any chance of getting the money back, personally if he'll still sign the car over I'd go with that and then walk away.

I'd also suggest that you won't be able to get money off him for when he stayed with you and was unemployed. Maybe the rest. I don't know though.

If your roles were reversed you'd probably have expected him as your then partner to support you? I'd give up on that money.

Not sure about the legalities of the car. First thing I'd do if go on 'we buy any car' and get the value as that's what he will likely get if he sells it/trades it in. Not what was paid for it. And use that in your calculations now.

You need legal advice on the car side to see what can be done regarding the texts he sent you to know if they can be counted as proof it was a gift. You can't trust his lawyers. They will tell you whatever suits them which may not be the true position.

Honestly though, you might be as well saying you'll take the car and cut your losses on the rest. Does he even have the means to pay you anything?

As for abuse, if it's a 'he says she says' situation regarding the abuse and no evidence so to speak he might gaslight the whole thing. If there's multiple hospital visits for you being injured that may be a different story. I don't know.

Life isn't fair. You deserve better.
Seems you just want money. I can see why. But sometimes the peace of mind to get away from an abuser and start a fresh life is worth more than money. You only have one life. Do you want to spend years of it in litigation?

Work out what you can realistically get from the bastard and go for that. Be it the car. Or money you think he has readily available.

Thank you so much for the replies.

i honestly don’t know where to turn with all of this.

last night he text me saying he would sign the car over to me if i signed a document to say he doesn’t owe me any money. Then this morning he said he wants the car back and won’t pay me a penny. Then late morning had text saying he will sell the car and give me half of the value. Is this constant fluctuation with him proof of anything?

as for what the dealership were meant to be doing, I assume putting my name on the invoice which they didn’t do. I’ve got emails with them discussing this (from mine and my ex partners joint email account) so I had been hoping this would be proof he gifted the car to me.

he is now continuing his abusive nature and is threatening to report me to social services for being a bad mum and to DWP for a disability benefit I receive. He’s said he will do this if I don’t give him what he wants (the car and no money repaid to me).

im at rock bottom with how he’s treated me whilst we were together and im scared of reporting all of the abuse as I don’t know how I would prove it other than texts where he’s simply said he’s sorry for how he treated me. I have anxiety and depression anyway, so this is making me to incredibly anxious. He just seems to want to do everything possible to ruin my life even now we are separated 😔

I’m sorry OP but unfortunately his back and forth isn’t proof of anything really. Nothing that would stand in court anyway, if he is the legal owner of the car then you’d need something solid like a deed of gift to argue that.

If I was you I would return the car, purely to be done with him and have nothing hanging over my head. Get a clean break from him.

Then I’d report the abuse if that is something you want to pursue legally.

It’s a tough situation and I honestly think the best thing you can do for yourself and your mental health is to fully extract yourself from him, return the car and then go no contact, block his number and don’t look back.

The dealership putting your name on the invoice would be irrelevant: your ex could still demonstrate that he was the one who paid the invoice and therefore considers it legally his car.

None of your exchanges prove conclusively that the car was a gift: they indicate a bad break up between two people who are annoyed because they both feel they’ve lost out financially. In your situation I’d return it, block him, and let yourself move on. If you’re intent on keeping the car then all you can do is collect up all the evidence you have of it being a gift to you, and wait to receive court documents from him where he’ll evidence his claim that it wasn’t a gift. The court will then look at the evidence in balance and make a decision.

Court won't investigate abuse claims. That's what police are for.

He's the legal owner of the car; reguardless of insurance etc.
Money that you spent living together when you were together for living expenses is exactly that - living expenses you don't legally have the right to get that back.

Come off Mumsnet and call a solicitor.

Don't take your ex's word for anything.

Your ex is just trying to bully you. The yo-yoing is showing you he's not had legal advice and he's just trying to get what he wants through any means.

Are you married or not?

1. car could be yours or could be his, but as you've got ownership and paying for it
2. you'll not get the money back as it was a gift and no contract in place with payment terms. What you do as partners can't be taken back later, due to regret. Can't give what has already been spent either.
3. you can warn him if he keeps harassing you you can report the abuse and threats to the police and get a non molestation order against him
4. civil court doesn't get involved with behaviour, if married it really doesn't use it to change outcomes, nor in small claims court it's about assets. Criminal proceedings have a high threshold and are enforceable only by police and CPS when it's reached a threshold

Please get some legal advice. Don't be scared of it. I do think the car for no money owed is reasonable (without knowing more) - not reasonable of you're married though!

He will keep doing this until he breaks you, the only way to stop it is know your actual rights and consistently apply them. Take control of this separation rather than letting him be in control.

Be kind to yourself lovely. It's hard right now but it'll get easier. X

We always agreed if we split up that he would repay me for the many months we lived together and he didn’t work.

Did you think that was ever likely?? No way you’ll see any of that unfortunately.

personally I’d let him (via solicitors) have the car, and with it any reason he has to contact you - an expensive lesson but at least you’ll be rid? X

“he is now continuing his abusive nature and is threatening to report me to social services for being a bad mum and to DWP for a disability benefit I receive. He’s said he will do this if I don’t give him what he wants (the car and no money repaid to me).”

Pretty damn sure this constitutes blackmail which is a criminal offence, do you have the above in writing or voicemail.

Did he buy it outright?

Is your child his child?
Do you need the money and the car?

I ask because, if you don’t need either to survive then walk away. By having these discussions you are keeping him connected to you.

If you share a child, focus on emotion free discussions about child support.