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Legal matters

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Any family lawyers who can help with widower remarrying?

21 replies

Minesnotahighhorse · 11/10/2024 22:23

Posting on behalf of a friend in the hope that I can find her some help during a really difficult time.

She has been with her DP for nearly 30 years. When they got together he was separated from his wife (and mother of his then teen DC) but not divorced. His ex wife passed away some years ago.

Her DP has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer and may not have a lot of time left. They had always meant to get married but had never got round to it and are now both keen to do so, not least for reasons of next of kin and inheritance.

When they went to speak to the registrar to give notice, they said that as they were not divorced they need to apply to family court to have “wife of xxxx” added to the death cert. of his ex (which they have a copy of, as well as marriage cert). This may take up to 4 months to process and they may not have that much time.

Are there any family lawyers who can confirm this is necessary? They don’t have a lot of money to pay for legal advice and she is distraught with worry so I am trying to help in whatever way I can (including appealing to the legal minds of MN!)

OP posts:
Bannedontherun · 11/10/2024 22:33

What? He is a widower so no longer married. Is your friend married?

Minesnotahighhorse · 11/10/2024 22:38

No! But they were told by the registrar that his ex-wife's death certificate would have to be amended to add "wife of xxxx(friend's DP)". This sounds very unnecessary as surely death cert should suffice?

OP posts:
Bannedontherun · 11/10/2024 23:09

Well that is just plain nonsense i would e mail the senior registrar about this.

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 11/10/2024 23:22

https://www.gov.uk/marriages-civil-partnerships/documents-youll-need-to-give-notice

I wonder if the registrar has misunderstood this
"If you’ve been married or in a civil partnership before
You’ll also need to bring one of the following documents:

You need to bring proof of your divorce, annulment or dissolution if it was granted outside of the UK, Channel Islands or Isle of Man."

I mean I can't really see how?!
If they have the marriage cert then that's proof she was 'wife of xxx'. Why does it also need to be written on a separate document?! Unless there is anything out of the ordinary like different names?

PerspicaciaTick · 11/10/2024 23:37

That doesn't happen in my area. The registrar would just ask to see the first marriage certificate plus the death certificate to prove the link.
If the district are inflexible, you can speak to the General Registrars Office on 0300 123 1837 for advice.

Bannedontherun · 11/10/2024 23:49

PerspicaciaTick · 11/10/2024 23:37

That doesn't happen in my area. The registrar would just ask to see the first marriage certificate plus the death certificate to prove the link.
If the district are inflexible, you can speak to the General Registrars Office on 0300 123 1837 for advice.

Best advice

prairiegirl81 · 11/10/2024 23:58

I think the issue here is that the death certificate may be incorrect. Roughly how long ago did she die? What is displayed on death certificates has changed slightly over the years.

If they were still legally married, albeit separated, at the time of her death, then her death certificate should state 'wife of ...'. This can then be used as proof that the living spouse is free to marry again. If it doesn't say that, and should have done at the time of the registration then it is factually and legally incorrect and will need a correction.

A correction would not normally take four months and you don't normally apply via the family court. Who registered the death initially? Is it likely that they told the registrar at the time that the couple were divorced, when in fact they were not? This would lead to the marital status space being blank, which seems to be what is causing the issue here.

Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 08:16

PerspicaciaTick · 11/10/2024 23:37

That doesn't happen in my area. The registrar would just ask to see the first marriage certificate plus the death certificate to prove the link.
If the district are inflexible, you can speak to the General Registrars Office on 0300 123 1837 for advice.

Thank you, this sounds like a good next step. I will pass on the number.

OP posts:
Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 08:19

prairiegirl81 · 11/10/2024 23:58

I think the issue here is that the death certificate may be incorrect. Roughly how long ago did she die? What is displayed on death certificates has changed slightly over the years.

If they were still legally married, albeit separated, at the time of her death, then her death certificate should state 'wife of ...'. This can then be used as proof that the living spouse is free to marry again. If it doesn't say that, and should have done at the time of the registration then it is factually and legally incorrect and will need a correction.

A correction would not normally take four months and you don't normally apply via the family court. Who registered the death initially? Is it likely that they told the registrar at the time that the couple were divorced, when in fact they were not? This would lead to the marital status space being blank, which seems to be what is causing the issue here.

Thanks for your response. I think it could be something like this. They had started divorce proceedings but never finalised and it is possible that the person who registered the death didn't know she was still legally married.
Do you know what the actual procedure is for amending the death cert?

OP posts:
SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 12/10/2024 08:31

I’m sorry for your friend’s situation and hope they can resolve this. What a wake up call to the rest of us to sort these things out before they become emergencies.

Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 13:31

prairiegirl81 · 11/10/2024 23:58

I think the issue here is that the death certificate may be incorrect. Roughly how long ago did she die? What is displayed on death certificates has changed slightly over the years.

If they were still legally married, albeit separated, at the time of her death, then her death certificate should state 'wife of ...'. This can then be used as proof that the living spouse is free to marry again. If it doesn't say that, and should have done at the time of the registration then it is factually and legally incorrect and will need a correction.

A correction would not normally take four months and you don't normally apply via the family court. Who registered the death initially? Is it likely that they told the registrar at the time that the couple were divorced, when in fact they were not? This would lead to the marital status space being blank, which seems to be what is causing the issue here.

I have some more info. She died in 1984 (so he was already a widower when he met my friend). The death cert does not reference marital status and the only reference to marriage is a field for 'maiden surname of woman who has married' which shows her maiden name as she was still using her married surname when she died.
So there doesn't seem to be anything factually or legally incorrect on the death cert.

OP posts:
prairiegirl81 · 12/10/2024 13:35

The link a couple of posts above explains about the correction procedure. You would apply via the registration district in which the registration took place. They will require evidence, in this case I would imagine it will be a marriage certificate if it is a the case that a divorce never took place. It will be chargeable; most likely it will come under the £99 category error of fact.

prairiegirl81 · 12/10/2024 13:40

If the groom-to-be is seriously ill and not expected to survive a month the couple could look into the rules regarding a Registrar General's licence (so called 'deathbed' marriages). In these cases the usual rules around 'proof' can sometimes be temporarily 'waived' to allow the couple to marry very quickly.

However the proof would need to be provided afterwards for the marriage certificate to be issued and for the marriage to be considered legal.

A Registrar General's licence must meet stringent conditions, and a medical practitioner must sign a declaration to this effect and it is absolutely NOT a way to circumnavigate the proof needed that someone is free legally to enter into a new marriage.

Proof will always be needed afterwards in order to ensure the marriage was legal at the time it took place. If evidence cannot be subsequently provided, the marriage can be voided or nullified.

Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 13:55

prairiegirl81 · 12/10/2024 13:35

The link a couple of posts above explains about the correction procedure. You would apply via the registration district in which the registration took place. They will require evidence, in this case I would imagine it will be a marriage certificate if it is a the case that a divorce never took place. It will be chargeable; most likely it will come under the £99 category error of fact.

Thank you! So even though there are no inaccuracies or omissions on the death certificate they would still need to amend to specify that she was his wife when she died?

OP posts:
PerspicaciaTick · 12/10/2024 18:24

Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 13:55

Thank you! So even though there are no inaccuracies or omissions on the death certificate they would still need to amend to specify that she was his wife when she died?

I would still speak to the GRO first.

TreesWelliesKnees · 12/10/2024 18:35

It is also worth noting that if they do manage to marry in time this will render any Will either of them may have completely redundant. A new Will needs to be written immediately after marriage to ensure that the son inherits, rather than the new wife receiving everything. Please make the man aware of this - it can cause so much heartache to the children.

prairiegirl81 · 12/10/2024 18:52

Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 13:55

Thank you! So even though there are no inaccuracies or omissions on the death certificate they would still need to amend to specify that she was his wife when she died?

If they were still legally married at the time that she died, there is an omission/inaccuracy in the box where a person's marital status is recorded.

If someone is unmarried or divorced, nothing will appear here. If someone is married, civilly partnered or widowed at the time of death, this will be recorded on the death certificate.

In cases where people have separated but not divorced they are still legally married with all the rights etc that that conveys and this should be displayed on the death certificate.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 12/10/2024 19:04

OP, having looked at some examples it seems the 'wife of X' should be in the occupation box.

I'd imagine it doesn't look like there's anything missing because it doesn't ask for marital status anywhere, just maiden name, but that's where it is on these 2 examples.

Ets: Sorry, they've gone a bit blurry but hopefully you can make it out!

Any family lawyers who can help with widower remarrying?
Any family lawyers who can help with widower remarrying?
Minesnotahighhorse · 12/10/2024 21:38

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 12/10/2024 19:04

OP, having looked at some examples it seems the 'wife of X' should be in the occupation box.

I'd imagine it doesn't look like there's anything missing because it doesn't ask for marital status anywhere, just maiden name, but that's where it is on these 2 examples.

Ets: Sorry, they've gone a bit blurry but hopefully you can make it out!

Edited

Yes, there is no field for marital status so it must have to be entered elsewhere!
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. She's going to contact the GRO on Monday and take it from there.

OP posts:
prairiegirl81 · 12/10/2024 23:02

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 12/10/2024 19:04

OP, having looked at some examples it seems the 'wife of X' should be in the occupation box.

I'd imagine it doesn't look like there's anything missing because it doesn't ask for marital status anywhere, just maiden name, but that's where it is on these 2 examples.

Ets: Sorry, they've gone a bit blurry but hopefully you can make it out!

Edited

Yes, the information about marital status goes in space 6. If there is no marital status, this box just contains the person's occupation and home address if known.

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