Can I force a lean to ‘conservatory’ be removed

[fortifiedwithtea]

My Mum’s neighbour blocked up her pathway to her back garden by creating a lean to construction. This meant every time the neighbour needed work done on her house or the windows cleaned access was only possible by my parents goodwill letting tradesmen through their garage and the workmen hopping over the 3 foot high fence dividing the gardens.

My Mum is in her 80’s and neighbour is now in her 90’s. My Dad passed away many years ago. Both ladies had a stroke earlier this year. Mum recovered well but neighbour is now in a care home.

The relatives of neighbour have a difficult task as there was a hoarding situation going on and the house is an absolute state. Will need to be sold but extensive repairs will be needed.

I have instructed my mum not to allow a skip on her driveway as it is a 1970’s crazy paving design and is crumbling. It will not take the weight of a skip without further damage. Neighbour has an overgrown front garden that a skip can go on.

I also do not want her to allow access through her garage. The bigger picture I want the lean to removed. The leanto effectively makes the houses terraced not semi detached as they were designed to be when first built.

I have lasting power of attorney for my mum. Would a solicitor be able to write a letter to the relatives of next door that access from my mum’s property will be denied and the lean to will have to be dismantled.

I am concerned that this has gone on since the late 1960’s and has set a precedent.

Parents and neighbour were the original owners of the properties going back to 1967.

Is your mum still compentent to make decisions? Presumably if she’s living on her own then she must be. What does she think? If she’s still mentally competent then it’s really her opinion that matters rather than yours.

Firstly I would try having a conversation with the relatives about access, it sounds like they’re going to have to spend quite a lot of time there clearing out, so will probably need constant access to the rear of the property and they should be informed that it won’t be via your DM’s property. I would also mention the lean to and that you are not happy with it. I cannot imagine any skip company would put a skip on a neighbour’s property without the owners permission.

Of course you can’t force someone to remove items from their own property! You can ask the council if it has PP, and if they can force its removal. If your DM is happy to let the window cleaner into the back through her garage then why are you trying to stop her? How does the window cleaner get into your DMs garden?

It probably didn’t need pp. They can have a skip in the road and use the front door. They should not have access through another property. Dm should agree to this and a letter should be written. Just talk to DM. She doesn’t know the relatives so they would be strangers coming in and out. I agree that’s worrying and DM should understand this.

Getting it taken down is unlikely.

My Mum is unhappy with the access situation. Never has liked it. It was my Dad who was the softer one.

Yes my Mum still has capacity but I know she can be browbeaten in agreeing to things she doesn’t want for a quiet life. I dont want her to be a pushover.

A skip can not easily go on the road, there are double yellow lines as near a commuter rail station and a childrens day nursery is round the corner. Non resident parking in the road caused congestion and the Council put yellow lines in years ago. Mum needs her driveway should we need to go to her, I live half hour drive from her.

Next doors relatives have a hell of a job ahead of them. The lean to is so cluttered they can not open the door, its full up with junk. The patio door from the lounge to the back garden is jammed and can not be opened. Due to garden neglect sycamore saplings are growing all over the very small garden.

If the relatives take down the lean to they will have access to the neighbours back garden as it was designed via the pathway .

Ultimately the house will be sold to pay for the care home fees. I don’t want this access problem to continue once new owners move in. Its a stupidly small lean to about 10 feet long and 3 feet wide literally a pathway width.

Just get a solicitor to write a letter to the neighbours stating that from this day they will not be allowed access through your property for any routine maintenance etc .

But it isn't your mum's access problem. It's your neighbours.

All you have to do is say no to access through the house and no to the skip on her driveway. Surely that's the end of it?

You seem to be muddling up a few things

Firstly, if your mum doesnt want people going through the garage to reach their garden next door then the answer is no, tradespeople can simply go through the neighbours house to get to the back of neighbours house, simple as

Where the neighbour needs to put a skip is up to them, I dont know why you're focusing on whther theres yellow lines or not, again if mum doesnt want to help by putting a skip on her front drive (and why would she, I certainly wouldnt), its for neighbour to sort out. And if they have a garden they have a garden

Have the relatives of the neighbour even asked about a skip yet?

A lean to being built does not make the house a terraced house, dont be ridiculous. Whether the back door opens inside their own house is nothing to do with you, its for them to sort.

You sound like you're getting overly anxious about things you dont need to. If they asked (which would be an odd request to my mind) any of the things above, the answer is simply no, its not convenient thank you.

Unless there was a formal legal agreement/easement to facilitate neighbours' access she can refuse. They can clear via front door or by removing the lean to. However if the lean to is on neighbour's land and assuming it has been there a while you cannot demand removal nor would the council enforce,

I’d agree to just say no. Also pop up a gate with a lock so they aren’t tempted to nip down.

I think the issue is that if someone (a neighbour or a tradesperson) knocks on the door and asks for access when the OP isn’t present, her elderly, frail mum might say yes when she doesn’t really want to. Then, strangers will be to and fro, and her path may be damaged.

Is this common? Do tradespeople randomly knock next door to ask for access through someone elses garage, that they have to be let into, rather than just go through the house of the customer?

If the back door of the neighbours house is jammed or whatever, then ergo no tradesperson can do any work until its fixed. Or they can climb through a window or something.

My mum was asked for access for the extension to be built next door. She said she would ask her son in law. My DH. That’s a great fall back line. It’s not acceptable for older people to be asked regarding letting strangers in. So get your mum to always say she will ask you. We didn’t let them in and got a party wall agreement.

There is a reasonable expectation that people will need access for maintenance but this isn’t the case here. The relatives can sort out their own clearance. A clearance company will arrive with a van parked somewhere! Loads of people don’t have skips. A side road might be possible but it’s not your concern. Neither is their lean to. Just write and ask the relatives not to disturb your DM. They have no rights to access via another property and just say no if they ask. They have a front door!

I’d not get any solicitor letter to say you are denying access through your mothers house and hopping over the fence - this letter would then prove that this has been happening for years & you’d be putting it in writing

i really don’t understand why you would empty a house from the back door, over a fence and through someone else house?

you start at the front door and into a skip in the nearest point / the garden, surely?

if the house is sold then your mum doesn’t let the new neighbours know she used to allow window cleaner through.

you may want the leaning structure removed, but other than suggesting it’s removal to allow access to the back garden, there isn’t much you can do

@ivykaty44 you have answered the legal part of my question. Its a very long time since I did my law O level. I am concerned that this practice has gone on for over 25 years and created a custom that will be carried on to the next owner of the neighbours property. As you have pointed out, a letter asking it to stop proves it happened.

@TizerorFizz that a good suggestion. I will drill mum to say “I will ask my daughter “

@soupfiend in answer to your question “do tradesmen knock and ask for access” yes they absolutely do. The patio door that is now stuck ; that replaced a full width picture window and its wooden fame. Everything went through my parents garage. Or the time the neighbours original bathroom window frame rotted, ladders were put up on my parents garage flat roof.

This.

Where they put their skip, how they clear their house, how their window cleaner gains access is not your problem.

Just inform them that access will not be allowed via your mum's property.

I am right in thinking there is one path that both properties share that access both back gardens? If so you are absolutely right to be concerned, I can't believe some people are thinking this is ok or normal.

I would start by not allowing access every single time, so they have to remove the lean too. It must be stressful for your Mum waiting for a door knock and having people traipsing about.

Can you be there if they start to clear the house? After a few trips through their own house they may well realise its easier to remove it and you won't have anything in writing to prove its been there so long.

If your mum wasn’t to refuse access, then yes advocate on her behalf.

im not sure you can demand they dismantle but you can deny access through mums land and direct them not to put the skip on her land. They will need to find their own solutions to the problem, like most people do.

Lock the garage door and keep the key. That way your mum can't be browbeaten. Equally the 'I need to ask my daughter,' is an excellent suggestion. We did this with my mum and it sorted out sales calls etc.

You've had some good suggestions OP.
But also could you get your mum a Ring doorbell? Would she be able to use it to see who is at the door and not answer it to anyone she doesn't know?

IANAL but I'd be worried a letter would provide proof of the arrangement as ivykaty44 said. Instead IF they bother your mum I'd then write a letter saying she's vulnerable and feels unable to say no but doesn't actually feel comfortable with strangers going through her property or something along those lines. If they ask her about a skip and she feels unable to say no and can't manage I'll have to ask my daughter first, then get her to ring you straight away and you could go over to talk to them or leave a letter.

Denying access might mean they'll take down the lean to as you're making it their problem then, but otherwise given how long its been there I don't think it's likely you can get it taken down.

Can you get a ring doorbell for her and link it to your phone so you can speak to them directly and deny them access if they knock? Does your mum have unexpected visitors usually for any reason? If she doesn't get anyone except people who cold call or pre-planned visits from friends and family or the occasional courier, I'd tell her to stop answering the door, unless she's expecting someone and has checked through the window/spy hole that it is them who is
at the door.
.
In terms of legality of having (created an easement for?) neighbors right of way through your mum's property, I'd go with denial. They probably can't prove anyone came through.
.
Is there any chance her driveway could be fenced and a gate put up? Even if cheap and not a physical deterrent, it sends a clear message the driveway isn't available for neighbors use. Because some people wouldn't bother to knock and ask, if they knew a kindly old lady lived there they might just do it and then the damage is done already even if you got them to removed it 5min later.

Lock the garage and take the key with you. Get your mum to say she will ask you but nothing she can do in the meantime. If they do speak to you just say no.

Your getting over involved and making neighbours problem yours and offering solutions

just refuse access
how they get the shit out of the garden and where there skip is nothing to do with you

tell them she’s 80 lives on her own and not comfortable with letting strangers through her property and feels vulnerable

certainly don’t suggest they remove there lend to that’s up to them

also you might be creating a problem that’s not there
if the house is a shithole and there am emptying it carrying all the crap from the garden through it might not be a problem

Fine to refuse access but it's their business whether to keep the lean too and manage without side entrance.