Would a CAO specify who can collect child?

[nn07]

So if my ex applies to court for a CAO, can he have it put in there that his parents or sister can collect our child on his behalf?

The backstory is that my ex has been a shit and unreliable father, he doesn't really want to parent our child himself to be perfectly honest.

The arrangement at the moment is for him to have our child every other weekend. Except it's not him taking care of our child (who's still really young, not school age), child either goes to his parents or his sisters and he just pops in for a few hours.

A lot of the weekends he doesn't see our child at all as he's "busy" or "working". Our child has never stayed at his house (he has his own). Only with his parents or sister.

I'm not really happy with this to be honest. I've recently suggested that I won't be handing our child over to anyone else, only to him for collection for his weekends.

This has put a spanner in the works as it disrupts his plans (long drive as well as he lives far away and he resents doing this, hence palming it off on parents or sister).

I don't know if it's petty but I really just want him to step up as a parent and not palm our child off on others.

If anyone knows that would be great, thank you.

surely if the court order states he should collect the child, then you aren't obliged to hand the child over to anyone else
it would be up to him to go to court to contest this
does your child actually have a relationship with the GPs/aunts?

...or is the current arrangement just informal? In which case you can simply tell him you won't be sending your child off with anyone but him, and he will have to go to court if he doesn't like it
has he got PR?

It's hard and he sounds shit, but do the dc enjoy seeing family?
Would you be happy if that becomes an agreement and you can't ask anyone but him to provide childcare, noone else to babysit?

Apart from the obvious 'ask your solicitor' I suggest that you can ask for whatever you think appropriate in the CAO - in this case that he collects which given their age seems quite appropriate

Hi, thanks for the response.

So at the moment it's an informal agreement that's only been going on short term, because he asked for regular contact with our child.

I've been advised not to prevent contact, I've got no reason to either.

So I thought was great but I realised within weeks that this is his set up to have "his time", that he's not actually doing the caring himself.

Child is okay with grandparents and sister, I think. But didn't have much of a relationship with them before this. Just here and there. They didn't see them much for the first 1-2 years of life as ex wasn't trying to be involved really.

He doesn't have PR, but know if it went to court he would get this.

So the way I have phrased it to him at the moment is that I will only hand over to him as the parent, and I'm not obliged to hand over to anyone else.

Even though I know technically at the moment I'm also not obliged to hand over to him as he's not got PR.

If it went to court I'd want the order to say that child to be collected/returned by parent with PR unless by prior arrangement.

Just think this would make it harder for him to fob our child off with his parents and sister if he's actually got to do the leg work. If he's serious about wanting this relationship with our child, which at the moment he doesn't appear to be!

On his watch his decision what he does with the kid. You can't force him to spend time with the child unfortunately.
I doubt you'd get a CAO that specified that dad has to do pickup drop off and that a relative cannot unless there were some other reasons why that shouldnt happen. If your DC has a good time with grandparents who clearly are keen to see him as they're happy to drive etc then what's the concern you have? Other than he's a shit dad (which he is).
I'd just suggest to him that he has the child less if it doesn't suit him and up the maintenence you get accordingly!

I think my dc is okay with the grandparents. I don't mind dc going there it's just that he's not doing anything it's all them and his sister.

I wouldn't be asking them to babysit. They live hours away.

His mother and father were also very nasty when I was pregnant, texting me and telling me to get an abortion etc. didn't acknowledge child for a significant period of their life.

His mother and father were also very nasty when I was pregnant, texting me and telling me to get an abortion etc. didn't acknowledge child for a significant period of their life.

and now they want to pose as doting GPs?
I would not be facilitating that
if they are so keen they can meet up with you and DC for an afternoon
is ex paying any maintenance?

Unfortunately the dad can nominate who he likes to collect the children, if it's his time that's that. Many separated families use a third person to collect due to working hours or animosity. What he does / or doesn't do on his time is also none of your business and down to him as long as he is leaving them in a safe, supervised environment as difficult and unfair as that is. What you can do is have written in that you get first refusal if childcare is required but that's probably hard to enforce and would probably have to work both ways.

I understand that he can arrange childcare on his time and have whoever he likes looking after our child.

My question was whether this extends to collection, which is from myself. If he gets PR and sends his parents or someone to collect our child will I be obliged to hand them over.

All I would want a court order to say is parent with PR to collect unless by agreement.

For dc benefit as if he wants contact he should be having an active part in their life surely? Isn't it for the benefit of the child to spend time with their parents?

It is, and I do agree with you But don't think the courts will. If he organises a grandparent then that is the child developing their bond with the wider family. Equally it would be seen as fine to have a nanny or child kinder pick her up instead.

I think it's not uncommon. I had a BiL who fought tooth and nail in a custody battle, then dumped the child on his parents every contact time. We had no respect for him. He just wanted to "win" in a battle with his ex, who left him.

Yes I understand but there may be plenty of reasons why someone can't pick up a child for contact and I doubt, unless there's some other extenuating circumstances, that you'd secure any CAO with that in it.

It's hard for me as I have no other family, my child is all I have.

I'm willing and able to care for them all the time, and I have done as ex was absent for most of their life.

So I'm probably a bit resentful now as I've tried to be reasonable and agreed to the contact, only for him to not be doing any of the work anyway. I thought it was fundamentally so the child can spend time with their parent?

Instead my child is now off with people who didn't want anything to do with them until recently.

This has all started because I went to CMS. I believe he wants as many nights as possible to try and reduce.

I know it's best for my child to have regular contact with their Dad so I'm not trying to stop that, I don't care about maintenance being reduced. But that's not what's happening here, my child isn't spending time with their Dad.

I understand that there's going to be times when a parent has to make other arrangements for collection, stuff happens. I was just trying to stop it happening every single time.

You need to forget about you and the past in this scenario as hard as it is.

If your DC is in a safe and supervised environment that's what matters.

You may be willing and able to have your child but if courts vote against this then reframe that time. It's lovely looking after children I really enjoyed it but having a break is important too so frame it as that. Get a regular commitment in that slot whether it's an exercise class, craft group, cinema trip, long walk not having to be 'on' all the time. It will be horrible at first but eventually it will do your physical and mental wellbeing the world of good. I used to do all my chores, shopping and batch cooking so all my time with DD was quality as she got older I did am OU degree with the lion share of the studying during her contact time.

Also keep in mind, whatever he says may well not be the reality. My ex was adamant we were going to have 50:50, then when he couldn't work around that EOW and a day during the week. Eventually it dwindled and ended up as just a Sunday after DDs sports fixtures when she was in her teens.

Yes court order can be specific about who does handovers. Mine states it has to be between both parents, but each party can bring a 3rd person if they wish.

OP - I think the main point that you need addressing from what you have said is whether the DC is spending time with the father and, more importantly, is with the father overnight after he (or anyone he sends) collects DC.

A CAO (and any informal agreement) sets out the child’s right to spend time with the father.

If it is the case that the DC is not spending overnights with dad then you can insist that you will only hand over if dad confirms that DC will in fact be spending nights with him in future. If the DC has the right to spend time with dad overnight then you would not be breaching order if DC is not handed over to dad or whoever he sends, if you know dad is not in fact having DC overnight at all.

If you are happy with DC spending time with dad’s family regularly then that is up to you, but the arrangement is unlikely to be formal/wouldn’t likely be in a CAO in the same way as overnights with Dad.

I would think that who picks up would be determined once the above is sorted out.