Fine being enforced for traffic offence when car was being used w/o owners permission

[drwitch]

My son went to corfu and left his car with a meet and greet firm at gatwick. They used the car without permission (so not just to take the car to the car park) and drove through croydon town centre and committed a traffic offence. My son has tried to explain but his appeal keeps being rejected even though he can show the hire agreement and the stamps in his passport showing he was out of the country. - The reasons for rejection seem to suggest that they have not read the appeal. What can we do? The fine keeps ratchetting up and the further options given to him are purely based on adminstrative error - not that the decision was unfair

Can you find a motoring solicitor to take it on for you? A firm letter from someone legal might have more effect.

This needs to be on Legal, OP.

@KievLoverTwo how do I move a thread? been on here for decades and never done it

Click the three dots on your post to “report post”, click “other”, in comments put “please move to Legal” OR tag @mnhq and ask there.

Is the fine via local council/police? There should be a phone number, and can he cite the car parking company as the driver at the time.

Have you reported the being driven without consent to the police? If you haven't, and have not given the traffic offense authority a crime number, then they will assume you are lying about not giving permission in order to avoid someone else getting in trouble.

Any fines are the responsibility of the business who had your car and you shoukd be able to take them to the small claims court to recover your costs, but when you were initially sent the paperwork you are supposed to return it naming the person who was driving at the time. What did you do at that point? If you failed to return the paperwork and didn't contact the company then the fines ratcheting up could be considered as due to you not acting reasonably.

What should have happened if everyone was being reasonable:
You receive the notification of the fine.
You phone the business and tell them what happened.
They apologise profusely and accept responsibility for the fine.
If they can identify the culprit quickly, that person gets named on the paperwork and correspondence and responsibility goes to that person.
If they can't then you pay the fine and the business refunds you.
Separately, the culprit is sacked and potentially arrested.

This situation obviously didn't follow that pattern - but did you give the business the chance to do this?

Afternoon @drwitch . We've moved this thread over to Legal Matters for you now.

Is your DS a member of the AA / RAC - I believe they have legal cover for motoring fines etc

Ah i see - the problem was that the meet and greet firm were not contactable - so we assumed that croydon council would have better luck at getting money from them for the offence that we would. If they had told us we needed to get a crime number we would have done so - but we never got any proper explanation or any indication that the situation had been understood. - If they had said - we need better evidence that the car was being used w/o your permission we could have supplied it.

no but I think I get some cover via my bank account - let me check - thank you so much

What kind of violation is it? I'm assuming something like going into a bus lane. Or is something that's been issued by the police?

You have an extremely good case here.

Is it Croydon Council who has issued it or is it anything to do with TFL?

Ypu can report this easily online andyou can usually add atachements - proof etc. Then use the online report number whilst you wait for a crime reference.

Personally, since you can prove the car was handed over to an airport parking company and your son was out of the country i would insist this goes to court. A judge would throw this out imho, and if it gets this far ask for your court costs to be covered. Cases like this tend to be dropped days from court as they rely on your fear so you pay up.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/speeding/if-you-want-to-appeal-a-letter-or-notice/
Does this help with anything?

EDIT - pp made a good point. Did you at any time report this company to the police for driving it without consent?

thank you everyone - this is all really helpful

Is this one of those moving traffic things like ignoring turn restrictions which are enforced by London Councils rather than the police?

Yeah that's what I'm wondering. It might be London Tribunals can help, but I'm not sure from the information available. Depends what the violation is.

I was reading this with a friend who is a judge earlier and mentioned it. He said let them take it to court because it'll get thrown out, but it might be there's a body to appeal the appeal to in the meantime.

OP - you definitely need a crime number in your arsenal if you haven't already got one.

@ShortyWentLow I went to London Tribunals with a parking ticket from Camden and won. Well weird as a previous case on same facts/same site aeons ago is on the Tribunals' website as a leading case!!

In a previous professional iteration I knew quite a few of the adjudicators and they were all fair and professional.

I'd have very faith in them to chuck this back at Croydon LB unless there's a missing fact.