Access to back garden

[tnernepo]

Hello
So I've bought a property which has a side extension built close to the boundary, cutting off access to the back garden directly.
My neighbour has a gate on his side and a fence that pretty much runs parallel along my extension wall. I.e. from where my extension ends, his fence starts and runs to the back of the garden.

Now the interesting bit is that there is a bit of my land left which the neighbour uses to access their gate. Its a narrow access area down the side of our houses around 1.5m wide. About half is mine. The reason btw that I am saying it is mine is that the fence stops - this bit starts - then at the front of the house where our driveways split is another small wall. So imagine a fence going in a straight line, then it stops allowing access to the back garden for my neighbour, then a wall continues the boungary. In a straight line, this would make my area about 0.75M.

My problem: Id like to be able to use this to access my back garden but it would involve this fence being moved.
I have spoken with the neighbour but he is not interested in helping out. Pretty much told me to f-off said not to contact him again(i know lovely chap)

So my question is that, this area next to my extension that he uses - what are my options with this? Who would i need to contact if i take this down the legal route.
Edit: should also mention that there is no easement or anything regarding this in the title of both properties

You would just need to fence off your land. The neighbour should be asked to confirm (and provide evidence) if he thinks he has rights to use your 0.75m of land. There is a chance he may have acquired prescriptive rights.

Are you 100% sure this is yours? You say you have just bought the property, did this not come up at any point during the buying process?

I think it sounds quite complicated and I'd say you need to speak to a solicitor however decide how much this means to you.

I get you wanting to use your own land if you have a legal right to, however you may sour neighbour relations for the next however many years, as your neighbour does not exactly sound reasonable in his response! I'm not sure I would potentially want a neighbour dispute, bad neighbours can really ruin living in a property.

I’ll go for mn bingo.

diagram please

A) diagram
B) you need to 100% confirm the boundary
C) an alleyway of 0.75m is pretty narrow and going to be of limited use BUT it is worth ensuring the fence is on the boundary to avoid future claims from them

Do not throw lots of money at this- he may have prescriptive easements over the land, get advice from your solicitors but I wouldn't pursue if it is going to be messy. Boundary disputes under general boundaries rarely end easily or cheaply.

I'd get legal advice and a surveyor to be absolutely sure of the boundary. Is it worth the hassle and cost over such a small bit of land though?

Have quickly drawn something up to try to explain. added a big of grey because that area is a different texture and colour than the ground on the other half. The fence and brick wall do not run completely straight, this is drawn like this on purpose. also added the title plan drawing

is there a fence along the boundary line next to your extension? How much room do you actually have at the narrowest point between the house and the boundary?

Sorry, but having seen your diagram, you're nuts. You think you have legal recourse to get him to move his fence on his land so you can access yours?

Just fence off your bit and tell him to get legal advice - if he isn’t going to be helpful to you you shouldn’t be to him

If I have this right. You would like to move the fence to were your extension ends, so you could access your garden too.

We had this but in our case it was our garage that was built to within 50cms of the boundary.
Like yours, there was no fence. So we put one in - we felt that there was a risk of the neighbours claiming it was their land.
And then we knocked down our garage and built a side kitchen extension instead. Made sure we left enough gap for a passageway.
Probably a bit extreme if your extension is already a kitchen though😀
I'm glad we did it though because it’s made life so much easier and there is no risk of a possible boundary dispute in the future.
CF neighbours had already begun to land grab in the back garden - now that we have our new fence and passageway it’s clear to see that they had put a fence right up to the corner of our garage. The fence now goes off at an angle where we have claimed our 50cm back.

I can live with that. Anybody passing can see what they have done - it just makes them look like the CF’s they are.

Have you checked your deeds for right of access?

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

@Dreadingtheoutcome
No fence, the fence ends and then a little brick wall continues at the front of the house. Around 1.5M in total is the side area, if the fence had continued it would be roughly half each side.

@MrTiddlesTheCat
I dont think I anything of it yet, just seeking advice. If yours is "im nuts" without any further clarification or context, then thanks for your input. Read the original post and the bit after "my question is".

@Ozanj Wondering if a mini shed with some garden tools for front garden will do. I am on the hunt for someone to do a survey from what someone else suggested above in one of the replies.

@Thatwouldbeme Yes, that would be nice. However, this particular bit is not something I am looking for a legal route for. I was thinking plan being, figure out the FACTS with this side area - then approach the neighbour to move his fence for a compensation of x money, I havent thought of a figure yet. And if he refuses then why would I leave a bit of my land over his side to use as he wills? Hence, building / fencing my bit off.

@fridaynight1 That is very helpful, thank you!

Yeah I would agree that you can either leave it open as it is, or fence it off as long as the whole fence is on your side of the boundary.
When you said there's nothing in the title about it, make sure you check both yours and theirs.
Either way I'm not sure that it's the best way to improve things with an already hostile neighbour, but maybe if you play the long game, the next occupants might be more amenable. I think the issue was caused by whoever designed the extension, so I can see why the neighbour is not interested in being accommodating "sorry I blocked my access, can I use yours instead". He might already be resentful about the noise/mess/appearance/over shadowing, or the builders or previous neighbours might have been rude to him, you never know the background.
But all that aside, fencing it is your only sensible option if you want to asset your ownership.

@tnernepo can you maybe google earth this and zoom right in to show that layout as it is??

@johnd2 Interesting reason why the previous owner went for the side extension pretty much all the way, I did ask him the same thing after speaking with him once. That why did you not just leave some more space on the side.
He told me that at the time the neighbour had agreeed to provide access and move the fence. Verbally. However, after the extension was done, the neighbour, instead of moving the fence, he raised it and refused to budge. So the previous owner put himself in the position that we are in now.
Funny thing is, other houses on the road have exactly the same thing in some places, e.g. my neighbour on the other side has his side access the same way and is sharing with his immediate neighbour.

I am not looking for something for free. I am considering offering my neighbour £15,000 as compensation for moving his fence for circa 5 metres (side of my back extension) back into his garden by 0.75M. But before I approach him I'd like to have the facts of the side area clear first.

@allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld Ive attached a google earth image as much as i could zoom

Thanks for the update - so I hope you got the house slightly cheaper due to the access issue!
Previous owners mistake was not to resolve the access legally before finalising the design. Or maybe it wasn't a big enough issue for them.
Good luck with it! And enjoy your house I hope regardless.

From the plan you've added, it looks like vast majority of the gap is his land, and only a very narrow slither is yours. The reason for no fence there is probably so you can maintain the side of your house by the boundary. There's no way the gap is 50/50 shared, and I'm confused as to why you would think it is.

He might be prepared to sell you a chunk of his land, but in his position, I probably wouldn't.

You can fence the boundary if you like, but all posts and fixings need to be on your side and you'll likely create a narrow damp corridor and impede airflow to your wall, and you'll ́need to remove the fence to maintain your wall. Seems a lot of hassle just to be petty and inconvenience your neighbour.

I'm not sure why you bought a house without sides access if sides access was important to you.

@mrsm43s In the plan Im the top side... I thought from the drawing, with one being on the right and one left, it would be clear. Apologies.

"He might be prepared to sell you a chunk of his land, but in his position, I probably wouldn't." - The gardens are around 45M in length, and around 12M wide. I make this 540Msquared. I think everyone would sell, it depends on the price.

I was thinking instead of fencing it, putting up a few shelves, extending to the edge of my boundary.

I provided further clarification for you. You can stick up a fence on your land to stop him using it if you want but you have no legal option to force him to move his fence to allow you to access your back garden.

@tnernepo I would be requesting a copy of the original deeds from Land Registry just to double check no ROW or covenants about the path.

Looking at the Land Registry plan it is clear the boundary is straight and so , subject to checking the deeds, you can put a fence up inside your boundary.

When you approached your neighbour did you mention purchasing part of his garden?

If you want to try this again and are prepared for the costs I suggest you:

• get a Chartered Surveyor to draw up proper plans showing what you are proposing. You will need these if the neighbour agrees.
• Ask a solicitor to write formally to your neighbour including the plans and confirming you are interested in purchasing a strip of land x by x as illustrated on enclosed plan.
• See what figure neighbour will agree to or if it’s a flat refusal.
• If it is agreed the solicitor will do the transfer and register it with Land Registry.

I have to be honest I would say no, and I suspect many people would say the same.

@Harassedevictee
Ok thats helpful thanks.
A few people have stated that they would refuse. Which is of course fine. But at the same time if i fence my bit off then its going to be extremely difficult for my neighbour to even being bins through. As i said its a small area anyway and its got guttering coming down the side of his house which comes out quite a bit.
All depends on the boundary survey i guess as others have pointed out so im arranging one of these now.

I appreciate you can fence in your area, but check there is no right of access to maintain gutters etc.

I would also consider this from your neighbours perspective, having asked and been refused, putting up a fence might come across as passive aggressive I.e. you are doing it to deliberately make his life difficult.

There should be a plan with the deeds that shows what belongs to who. We have a side access which is shared and is clearly shown as such on the deeds.

You should have figured this out before you bought the property! Did you not see the potential problem and ask your solicitor what the situation was?