Please help me with unfair disciplinary action

[Nezuko22]

Hi,

I have an appeal meeting on Monday against a disciplinary that was given to me last week. I have written dow a rebuttal because I'm quite an emotional person and I will be less likely to cry if I'm reading it off of a bit of paper.

The gross misconduct I've been accused of is false, and they have jumped straight to final written warning despite this being my first "offence".

The disciplinary was also sprung on me, there was no warning, no invite detailing the nature of the meeting, no chance to prepare my defence and no chance to bring a representative. I have been on the ACAS website and this appears to be unlawful. I also note that the appeals meeting is being conducted by the same manager who conducted the disciplinary. I was not offered the chance to appeal, I had to ask for it.

How would you play this? I truly believe this to be a personal vendetta agaisnt me and they are looking for a way to force me out of the company. I am going ot leave, but I am not going to tell them this until I have a job offer in my hand from somewhere else.

The emotional distress this has caused me has been unreal. My anxiety has been so bad I have spent most of the week shaking as I have to sit directly next to the manager who did the disciplinary. I had not eaten in 3 days and am at risk of my hair falling out due to stress related alopecia.

I'm going to call ACAS on Monday morning before the appeal for some extra advice but was wondering if any of you lovely ladies had some words of advice.

It really isn't difficult to say even on the minimal info already provided. 🤣

Thanks for all the advice.

I think as I have a mortgage in process and I need to be sensible with that, I’m going to just use Monday as a chance to explain my side of events and just let it go. Wait for my mortgage to go through and then hang in my notice. Had another interview offer today so I have 2 lined up for next week now!

Clearly none.

Even if OP had been there two years and had a case, there is no way she would be awarded millions by the Employment Tribunal. And the "advice" that OP cannot look for a job while the disciplinary is in progress is rubbish.

OP it’s very difficult to advise without knowing the seriousness of what happened. Was it an instruction that could have had consequences for the company, or maybe a safety issue putting someone at risk. If it’s serious misconduct they are only obliged to give you a first and final warning. If it’s gross misconduct they are within the law to sack you immediately but they should follow a fair code of practice in doing so, and give you a chance to put your side of things - it sounds as though that’s what’s happening here. You mentioned that they have put sanctions in place - are these connected to this incident or have you been disciplined before ? If all of these sanctions are related to the one incident, it sounds as though it was quite serious.

To be honest, as the law stands, within the first two years, unless you’ve got protected characteristics under the equality act 2010 (disabled, pregnant etc) they can pretty much let you go for whatever reason they like as you don’t have any recourse to tribunal.

I would contact ACAS for advice, but realistically I don’t think you have much recourse if they do decide to let you go as you haven’t been there long enough to have any protected rights. If they can prove it is gross misconduct then legally they can dismiss you immediately. It sounds as though they’re being fair in that they are not doing that, and allowing you to present your side of things before making any decision.

Another load of old crap. @Voneska Please stop posting advice on subjects you clearly know sod all about. You appear to be making things up as you go along, which - to put it mildly - isn’t helpful is it ?

No. Unless you have protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010 (disability, age, sex, pregnancy, race etc) your employer can pretty much let you go for whatever reason if you haven’t had 104 weeks continuous service.

Why would the employer ‘pay her off’ when they can just dismiss her ? There is no room for negotiation or agreement for either pay off or reference - the OP has less than two years service.

This is good advice OP. You’re being disciplined for gross misconduct. If you look for any form of discrimination you would have to prove at tribunal that dismissal/disciplinary action was directly as a result of that discrimination and not for the issue at hand.

This. I think what a lot of posters are forgetting or not understanding is that unless OP has 104 weeks continuous service she only has minimal day one protection. Employers are legally able to sack anyone who hasn’t accrued this statutory protection against unfair dismissal, without giving a reason and without having to defend the reasonableness or procedural fairness of the decision. So her employer could actually have sacked her immediately if they really wanted rid of her.

I think that is a good plan OP. I think you can attend the appeal, present your case and show you are acting in good faith. Although you are upset with the organisation I would suggest trying to put that to one side at the meeting and give them the chance to put things right.

This could help keep your options open - you can then decide your next steps based on the outcome of the appeal. Even if they uphold the FWW you can then stay in the role as long as you choose - long enough to allow your mortgage to go through and/or secure a new job.

You don't need to mention this issue at the job interviews btw and I wouldn't, just focus on the work tasks you have been doing when questioned.

Hi,
I'm a lecturer in management and leadership and I worked in middle/senior management posts for 20+ years and I've conducted hundreds of disciplinary and appeal hearings . Going straight to a final warning is not uncommon, it depends on the severity of the defence. Reading your post or seems that "failure to follow a reasonable management request" is the issue, but I'm not aware of the context. The best way to deal with an appeal is to fight on the ground of process not being followed at the original hearing. Where you given 24hrs notice in writing of the original hearing? Where you given the right to be accompanied? Did you receive the verdict in seeing stating why the decisions war made? Please message if you need help, one helped Macy people in similar circumstances.

It sounds like a common scenario that correct process hasn't been followed. Get hold of a copy of the company's disciplinary policy and check what process is meant to be. There are instances where certain misdemeanours can lead to a first and final warning, but you need the policy to see if it fits this scenario. Good luck.

YES. Do this.

Tell them the legal position in writing. Then join a Union and arrange a rep to be with you at the rescheduled meeting.
You must give them your position in writing so there's a record of it.
If they force you into a meeting, tell them in writing again that's it's not legal. Attend the meeting and say you will not be taking part because of a, b, and c.
You must have a representative with you and you must record everything.
This is incredibly stressful and upsetting for you, I know. So sorry.

You cannot join a Union and get them to THEN help you by attending meetings etc.

If OP hasn’t got 104 weeks continuous service all of this is irrelevant. Her employer can sack her for any reason they like and she has no recourse. There is a recommended code of practice when dealing with serious or gross misconduct but employers are not obliged to follow it. If the employer has issued a written warning then they clearly don’t want to sack her at present because they could easily have done so well before now.

In some circumstances yes you can.

Yes. I clarified this upthread. If the reason for dismissal is nothing to do with the protected characteristic then they can absolutely dismiss. A poster upthread suggested that OP claim protected characteristics for disability, but this doesn’t address the issue of gross misconduct for a separate issue.

You must take someone with you to take a note of what is said

Iam the union rep, where I work, you need to contact the union and tell them what happened if you didn't join, I would ask for another date for appeal hey will give you time to resign before your sacked.

I would urgently speak to ACAS and/ or your union of you are in one and get advice. I think you need either union or some sort of other representation as it seems as though they haven’t followed appropriate employment processes. Can you postpone on the basis that you are getting representation?

How the hell do you know she won't win? We don't even have all the facts. Don't give out uneducated advice.

Can she take them to civil court for slander/libel?

If she has no rights having worked there fewer than two years?
I'm not saying she should, just wondering if that's a possible mechanism.