Please help me with unfair disciplinary action

[Nezuko22]

Hi,

I have an appeal meeting on Monday against a disciplinary that was given to me last week. I have written dow a rebuttal because I'm quite an emotional person and I will be less likely to cry if I'm reading it off of a bit of paper.

The gross misconduct I've been accused of is false, and they have jumped straight to final written warning despite this being my first "offence".

The disciplinary was also sprung on me, there was no warning, no invite detailing the nature of the meeting, no chance to prepare my defence and no chance to bring a representative. I have been on the ACAS website and this appears to be unlawful. I also note that the appeals meeting is being conducted by the same manager who conducted the disciplinary. I was not offered the chance to appeal, I had to ask for it.

How would you play this? I truly believe this to be a personal vendetta agaisnt me and they are looking for a way to force me out of the company. I am going ot leave, but I am not going to tell them this until I have a job offer in my hand from somewhere else.

The emotional distress this has caused me has been unreal. My anxiety has been so bad I have spent most of the week shaking as I have to sit directly next to the manager who did the disciplinary. I had not eaten in 3 days and am at risk of my hair falling out due to stress related alopecia.

I'm going to call ACAS on Monday morning before the appeal for some extra advice but was wondering if any of you lovely ladies had some words of advice.

Yes many will be open til 5 today.

Also, if she gets dismissed, an unfair dismissal route may work out well for her.

Less than 2 years OP has no case.

She’s been there less than two years.

OP some of the advice here is v bad. Your best option is to calmly appeal to buy yourself time, but you should be looking for another job.

HR professionals everywhere. 🙄🔫

Agreed.

Just to be clear, I am absolutely looking for a new job! I would love to go off sick but I just can't really afford to live on the sick pay atm and my husband and I have just applied to remortgage (i know, terrible timing!).

I want the disciplinary reviewed so this doesn't effect my chances of getting a job. I have an interview on Thursday and I'm so worried about if they ask me about the disciplinary. I also don't trust my manager to give me a good review now. What would you do?

I agree. Sometimes it's better to get out than have the stress of fighting a losing fight.

Not really. You could send them something in writing, but you're better off spending that time job hunting because it's not going to go anywhere.

How long have you been employed there? Did you have a probation period? Did you pass that?

She has no right to UD claim as she hasn’t worked there for two years.

What advice would you give

I've been there 14 months and I passed probation at 3 months.

OP, I have been through all this with a national employer, in the end I was offered, and took redundancy. I had witnesses prepared to speak in my defence, and had an Employment Tribunal prepared, however, in the end it was not necessary.
Haven't read the full thread, so don't know whether you are in a union, but what helped me was sticking to the facts, written on a bullet point sheet, as if I was reading and talking about someone else, not myself. If you go in to the meeting, as if you are representing someone other than yourself, and give your account in a detached way, like your experiences happened to say, a co worker, you will feel less emotional, particularly if you have had to give your account previously, when emotional. Best of luck and hugs, you will get through this.

Just to add, if you are being interviewed for another job, you do not need to mention the discipinary, you could just say you are in a dispute with the management on a point of principle.

You could potentially bring a wrongful dismissal claim (which is different to unfair dismissal), but only if their disciplinary procedure is contractual, which it rarely is.

@FinneganFois That's super helpful thankyou so much!

Unless it's discrimination against a protected characteristic you can be sacked within 2 years. You have no claim for anything.

Thank the utter cunt David Cameron for that.

You need to find a new job unfortunately. I've been through similar ( as a self employed contractor) and for your own wellbeing it's best not to fight the unfightable. Just walk away.

There are so many things to unpick here!

Was there an investigation meeting prior to the disciplinary?

Did you get a formal invite to the disciplinary stating the allegations and were you given the correct notice and right to be accompanied?

Were you provided with an outcome letter after the disciplinary?

Did different people hold the investigation meeting and disciplinary hearing?

When did you raise the appeal and why is the same person who held the disciplinary holding the appeal?

What evidence did they provide to back up the allegations?

Can you evidence any for of discrimination? Do you have any protected characteristics?

It's only worth challenging it if you want to stay and you are looking to leave, in my opinion. Gross misconduct is usually set out in the handbook and would be reserved for things like theft, sexual assault, bringing company in to disrepute or something likely to cause an injury or death. So if you were told don't operate that machinery, you seem affected by medication or alcohol and you went ahead. Otherwise refusing to do something you were told to shouldn't be in this category. With a charge if gross misconduct it may not be appropriate for you to be given notice as you need to be removed from the situation immediately. For example if your till was down in money you might be suspended immediately while it was investigated. As it wouldn't be appropriate to keep you working and open ourselves to the chance of you stealing more.

I once had to fire someone on the spit when I was call monitoring and head a guy say to a customer I'll just need to pop you on hold for a minute. And then say to his colleague, my dealers outside just nipping down to get the coke for tonight, was there anything else I should get? I picket searched him on the way back in and found the pills and coke and he was fired same day.

A small point but it may be relevant - I believe the rules about dismissal say that, to be dismissed for failing to follow an instruction, the instruction must be reasonable i.e. nothing dangerous, illegal, likely to damage the employee’s professional standing etc.

Do you have any relevant protected characteristics? With less than 2 years service there’s not much you can do without claiming some sort of discrimination - otherwise they are entitled to dismiss you and just pay out your notice period.

Financially you are best off alluding to some sort of discrimination on Monday - age, sex or race etc. keep calm when they allege your gross misconduct and simply state it is not true and that they are manipulating the narrative and that you have your own notes about the relevant event. Ultimately you want them to make you an offer to leave where they open their cheque book and pay you off so they don’t need to defend a discrimination claim in the employment tribunal. Before you sign anything they will need to pay for you to instruct a solicitor.

@Cheeseandpineapple123

There are so many things to unpick here!

Was there an investigation meeting prior to the disciplinary?

-Yes but I had no knowledge of this.

Did you get a formal invite to the disciplinary stating the allegations and were you given the correct notice and right to be accompanied?

• No. I was asked to pop into a side room and then while I was sat down I was then informed that this was a disciplinary meeting.

Were you provided with an outcome letter after the disciplinary?

• Yes, but there was no offer of appeal on there. The next day a manager verbally offered me a meeting on Monday to discuss the previous meeting but still no mention of appeal. I had to request this.

Did different people hold the investigation meeting and disciplinary hearing?

• I have no idea I was not a part of the investigation.

When did you raise the appeal and why is the same person who held the disciplinary holding the appeal?

• The disciplinary was on Wednesday and I decided to raise an appeal on Friday.

What evidence did they provide to back up the allegations?

• None. Some phone recordings that they think prove that I lied to a manager and disobeyed that their order but that never happened inthe first place so the call recordings don't really mean anything.

Can you evidence any for of discrimination? Do you have any protected characteristics?

• I was thinking this may be discrimination as all the other exampkes of gross misconduct that I can think of that haven't been so severely punished are all male.

I also forgot to mention in my OP that I have had really harsh sanctions put in place too. I am no longer able to earn commission for the next 3 months so will lose my christmas bonus, I am no longer allowed to work from home and some real bullshit admin tasks I now have to complete.

For gross misconduct then a final warning is more lenient than dismissal and is appropriate sanction. However, under employment law you have to be informed that it is a disciplinary hearing in advance. You should have been suspended with pay during an investigation. It sounds a bit dodgy. Let them know you are consulting ACAS and not Mumsnet as it doesn't sound as though procedures have been followed.

Have you had a letter/email advising you have been found guilty of x and been given a final written warning, which you can appeal by x date? Ask for a letter if not
Have you written and submitted a letter of appeal?
They can't just arrange an appeal meeting before you have actually appealed!

You can't claim unfair/constructive dismissal if less than 2 years' service .... though if this is due to race/pregnancy/gender etc etc then you could claim discrimination instead.

It sounds very fishy op, usually the person conducting the investigation is independent (usually someone from ER/HR) and you wouldn’t know the person doing the hearing (certainly wouldn’t be sat next to them all week) Honestly sounds like they are trying to exit you.

Having said that you have barely any rights with under 2 years service. What sanction are they recommending? Is it dismissal? Could you “leave” rather than have that quoted in a reference? (I know it’s unfair)

Finally they can go straight to this stage for alleged gross misconduct, it’s usually reserved for serious transgressions like stealing (The most common one I “hear” in my role as hearing manager)