At the end of my tether with my ex.

[Sparklingwineandcheese]

I have posted before regarding the Passport/holiday issue. History of DV and ex just goes out of his way to be difficult. Currently is withholding the passport.

Some time ago I moved communication to email as a way of saving my mental health. Ex didn’t want to and immediately claimed his email was hacked and said I couldn’t email him. He has ignored requests to give me a new email but I imagine his old email works fine and it was just to be difficult.

So I moved onto signed for letters (which work really well for me and stop knee jerk responses)

I have now just had two letters sent from in the last couple of months returned with him having written “return to sender”. These were a letter from me regarding the passport issue and a further letter my Barrister wrote me over the same.

He has changed his phone number and has blocked me on it, but does not unblock me when he has our child so I am unable to communicate with him by phone at any point.

The only person he will communicate with is our DD who is nearly 9, via her phone. I have no way to speak to him at all, so if she is sick (for example) and isn’t going she has to message him, as I have zero way of contacting him. I do not believe this is right and he should not create a situation whereby an 8 year old literally has to be her mothers mouthpiece.

I am really opposed to going back to court (we have an Order but some discussion is needed around holidays) but this is becoming ridiculous.
It’s obstructive for the sake of it.

To clarify, I do not email/write often, I avoid all contact, but there are things that need discussing occasionally. I can now no longer get a letter delivered, so I’m a bit stuck what to do, or where I stand.

All signs are showing I’m going to end up going back to court, which I’ve tried and tried to avoid due to the money, but he just bloody keeps on and I’m at a point where I don’t know what to do.

I'm sorry OP, it does sound like court. Can you get the court to order the use of a messaging app too?

Possibly. I did suggest an app, which would have made life easier, but he refused as he claimed his email was hacked. I suggested setting up a Hotmail “just” for the app and then I would never need to contact him any other way.

He refused.

I take it you've booked a holiday and need the passport for that.

Could you apply for a new passport and report the previous one as lost/stolen.

I agree with pp the passport has been stolen. Just apply for a new one.

How do you arrange contact/ pick ups/ drop offs?

I did have this discussion before and was advised that I can’t cancel a current passport as it can lead to criminal charges.

The passport is an issue, but so is communication. It is a ridiculous situation that I cannot communicate at all with my child’s father unless it goes through our child!

New passport and imo dd is too young for a phone.. Guess he can seek legal advice when he gets no replies from her phone .. They can ask him why he is a cunt.

We have a court order, so in general I don’t need to. Previously I sent the holiday schedule in writing.
If there is an issue my DD has to text, which is absolutely ridiculous, but I have no way at all to actually contact him!

No way would I be keeping to a court order managed via a small dc. A judge won't be impressed.

I did have this discussion before and was advised that I can’t cancel a current passport as it can lead to criminal charges

Who advised you of that?

And why does your 8 year old have a phone? Take it off her. If her dad bought it for her and insists she has it, then she gets it when he picks her up and hands it back over to you the moment she gets home. She's 8 years old ffs.

A solicitor on here. It’s called Malicious cancellation if I knowingly cancel a passport that isn’t lost etc.

The phone is actually mine, she takes it on visits to keep in contact with me. He has somehow got the number and uses it to message her. I don’t have an issue over that, but the issue is it is now the only communication there is!

You're part of the drama here OP.

So what if she can't go because she's ill? (Not sure I really understand that part, he's her parent too, why can't he look after his sick child if it's his contact time? But leaving that aside...). If he hasn't provided any means of communication between you and him then he can't be contacted to say she's not coming. That's his problem, not yours. You sound stuck in must-appease-the-abuser mode. So he throws up a problem and you try to fix it. Why? It's not your problem.

The phone is yours so text him on it if you need to, his number is obviously in there. Don't make your DD do it! That's ridiculous.

Do as another poster mentioned, give her the phone when she's with him. She then gives it back to you when she arrives back home. So she has it for the purpose you intended, of keeping in contact with you while she's with him, but he can't be messaging her during your contact time because it's you who has the phone, not her.

I imagine he'll retaliate by taking the phone off her so she can't contact you when she's with him. Nothing you can do about that.

You're creating half this drama though by not going back to court. You're trying to avoid paying out in terms of money but it's your DD who's paying the price! Being used as a pawn in this toxic game. So either go back to court or stop sending her and let him go back to court. IDK if it makes any difference to who pays.

All of this.

Sounds to me you are playing straight into his toxic mind games and feeding into the drama. I have seen this happen to a friend and you can end up very unwell.

Step back and let him look after your dd when she is with him.
For the passport, can you not ask him at pick up or drop off? If your ex-partner still refuses to return the passport, you may need to apply for a court order to have the passport returned. This could be done under the Children Act 1989, seeking a Specific Issue Order.

Also as communication is so broken you will have to spend the money to go back to court. Save up, be brave and do it for the well-being of your daughter.

OP don't worry about the recorded delivery letters being returned. If he's wrote "return to sender" on them that means he's accepted them in the first place! If there's a signature online showing the letter has been delivered, he can't say he didn't receive it. So when it comes to informing him of things it's still a method you can use. Don't expect a response though. He doesn't want to communicate with you, he only wants to control you.

Cover your own back by sending letters, keep them if returned unopened.
Send him / post through his door / photograph and send a last WhatsApp picture (and save all of these as evidence) a simple, short letter which says you are unable to contact him at all, and while this remains the case you will be unable to inform him of any changes in routine. If she is ill, she won't come and he won't know. If she is hospitalised and in ICU you will be unable to contact him until possibly too late. 'I will assume that if you do not respond to this letter you agree with this.'
Take her phone away. If he texts her - reply in CAPS LOCK with THIS IS X, PARENT OF X. DO NOT CONTACT THE 8YO ABOUT ADULT DECISIONS TAKEN IN COURT and turn phone off. Finally - drop the rope, OP. He can't play tug o war with himself.

Hang on. If your DD is contacting him on a phone that is actually yours, then he hasn't blocked that number and you can use that phone to contact him.

Whilst I understand the ethos of returning to court, my last case took 2 years and cost in the region of 10k after a period of self repping.
Having looked into it, and speaking to my Barrister I am looking at around 4 hearings to enforce this.
He can (and will) try to vary the Order and it all starts again.
If you have not done it, you will not understand the sheer ordeal this is. I also don’t have 10k to do it again, which likely means self repping, which didn’t work out well last time.

To answer a few things. Yes, ex could have her when she is ill, but she doesn’t want to go.
Yes, I could use my old phone to contact him, but as I provided an email address, and used letters because I could not cope with the messaging him, it defeats the object if I now start messaging him on another phone.

Even if I got enforcement, I can’t explain how much he doesn’t care. He took me to court for this Order, but the Order was only ever for me, he complies with none of it and I have seen enough of court to know that he will get told off, leave, and continue as he is, safe in the knowledge I need to return at my cost to enforce it again.

I keep returned letters and I keep a log, currently I have extreme lateness, poor parenting, withholding the passport and removal from the UK without my permission or the information given to me.

If I am going to return to court then I need to return for several things all at once.

Yes, I probably am in some abusive cycle, it was an abusive marriage, that doesn’t just stop the day you leave unfortunately.

I totally get it OP. But we have a legal system. Yes it sucks and is inadequate, but it's the system we have. There is no other. So you either choose to use it or you don't. You can't expect to get the results of using it, without using it, though.

Fair enough she doesn't want to go if she's ill. All that requires is one text telling him she's not going. Not a conversation. Send it and switch off the phone. Block his number first and disable voicemail if you like, then there's no nasty messages when you switch it back on. There's no need for passing of information to be stressful.

I know the abuse doesn't stop when you leave. You're stuck with him until DD is a couple years older, when she can choose not to go and there's nothing much he can do about it, because a court will take her viewpoint into account. Until then you have to develop tactics to deal with it and one of them can't be passing on comms to your DD, as you rightly pointed out in your OP it's not fair on her.

I don't know why the passport is such a big deal. Ok taking her out of the country without your permission isn't good, but look at this from a logical perspective. I'm guessing it was a holiday? Do you have any reason to believe he'd abduct her? If no, let it go. If yes, look into how she could get help abroad to return home and teach her how to access it. Teach her the local language so she can ask directions to places that can help her and explain what's happened without needing a translator. Book your own holidays in the UK and accept you're not getting that passport back and will have to wait for it to expire so you can get a new one. Look into how soon you can do that before expiry and get onto it before he does, then never give it to him. If using the legal system doesn't work for you, then think of work-arounds that do.

Although his abuse won't stop the entire time he's in your life, your reaction to it can. You're in charge of your own emotions and you can change. You don't have to be stuck in the cycle of abuse. It takes two to fight. Stop engaging with the drama. He's playing with you like a cat with a mouse. He's enjoying watching you bang your head against a wall and get nowhere.

Why are you even bothering going back to court knowing it won't give you the results you want? Poor parenting - teach her how to mitigate the effects of that, how to care for herself, how and where to ask for help such as reporting things he's done to her teachers at school or whatever gets things flagged up. I'd alter your own life as much as possible so that extreme lateness doesn't derail it too much and you can work around it. If you know a court order won't stop it then what's the point of getting one? Leave it until she can stop going to see him (assuming that's what she wants) and then use your money to defend yourself/her when he takes you back to court for access.

I already have an order!
The issue with the passport is he has it, it’s new, he has ignored requests for it so I can book a holiday. I have other children, so for 5 years we are trapped in the UK.

I understand what you are saying, but you really don’t know him, doesn’t matter what you put in place, he just gets around it.

I am an intelligent person, but I have lived this for years and I put things in place to mitigate his behaviour, but he just will not stop. If 2 hours late doesn’t get a reaction, then 5 hours might.

He is meant to give me written notice of holidays and needs my permission, I am supposed to have the passport as RP.

Cirrently my DD is on holiday and I have no idea where. I can also hazard a guess I have not been added to the emergency contacts on the passport either.

This is why I debate whether I should go to court or not.

Hand hold OP. He sounds an utter nightmare and I can't imagine the resilience you must need to go through this over and over again

It seems he is pushing you around and if there is no reaction he pushes further. IMO it seems you are easy to manipulate perhaps due to prior or other abusers/abusive relationships. These sorts of people will flock to you (can be in different forms, partners, colleagues and parents).

A councillor once said to me you have the power to stop manipulation and abuse from others by thinking independently and that means not concerning yourself with other parties motive.
Try not to become concerned about why he is doing what he is, start thinking about what you need and how you will achieve it. As the primary carer you should have that passport. Get a letter from a solicitor asking for it, stating it’s for a holiday. If he does not respond then it is a paper trail of something you can use against him when back in court.

It must be distressing not knowing where she is on holiday, but perhaps this needs to be raised in court that each party must inform the other in writing.

You absolutely should take him back to court, it does not seem you have any other option. I can read the helplessness and despair from you and I sympathise. Do not give up on that passport.

It's no good getting snappy at me just because you don't like my viewpoint. Fine, you don't like my advice don't take it. I don't care 🤷.

No I don't know him but I know plenty like him. Yes, if you can't go abroad for 5yrs because he has the passport, you can't return to court because you can't afford it or because going to court doesn't work, then yes I am suggesting you wait 5yrs, because that's accepting reality and working with the situation you are in.

There's going to court with whatever results that gets you or there's not going to court. There are no magic options where he suddenly starts doing whatever you want him to do and turns into a reasonable person, that isn't going to happen.

Yes I'm sure he will push harder and harder for a reaction and every time you give him one, you teach him that if he just pushes a bit harder next time, he'll get that reaction he wants. You've got to show endless patience, at least on the outside, regardless of how you feel and never give him a reaction, because it doesn't serve you to do so it only serves him.

I'm not saying there's a one off workaround for this. I'm saying if you can't successfully fight him in court, whether that's due to costs or effectiveness of a court order, then if you could alter your life to be totally flexible (or as much as possible) then you'd be less affected by whatever he throws at you.

Like now, you're upset because DD is on holiday and you don't know where. Who is that hurting? You. You're the one upset. Sure, it's understandable and justifiable, but it's not helpful to you, is it. If you could get into the mindset that she's on holiday and most probably fine, you'd be happier, which would be better for you and your other children, and would make no difference to him or DD at this moment in time. Accepting it helps you get on with life, raging against it doesn't. If you don't think she's ok on this holiday with him, then can you report him to the police for kidnapping if he's gone without your permission? IDK if it counts as kidnapping or not, maybe the police or you lawyer can advise you?

“Yes, I probably am in some abusive cycle, it was an abusive marriage, that doesn’t just stop the day you leave unfortunately”.

Stop being a victim OP. Post separation psychological abuse exists but accepting and reacting to it means you will never be free of it.