Mum with dementia, brother moved into her empty house

[7catsisnotenough]

Hi, please can anyone advise on our situation?

Mum has advanced dementia (vascular and Alzheimer's) and is in a care home.

Brother appears to have moved into her house to "keep an eye on it" without consulting the other two siblings.

All bills for the house currently being paid by mum. Brother is single, no children or other half.

Given that mum can't consent to him being there and he hasn't consulted the other 2 siblings what happens if mum dies and/or the house needs to be sold to cover care home fees? How do we get him out?

No tenancy agreement, he's not a dependent child and sadly no LPAs as mum's decline was incredibly swift due to a stroke. Given there's no tenancy agreement a Section 21 presumably doesn't apply.

Please can anyone offer any advice? This has just come to light this evening and it seems to have opened a can of worms! DH is the eldest child, BIL is the (CF?!) who has moved in.

Any advice/suggestions gratefully received, thanks everyone!

You can apply for a Deputyship. It gives you the legal power to make decisions on somebody's behalf. I would phone Age UK for advice.
https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy

Actually, it’s probably a good thing. We’re having to insure my mum’s empty house while waiting for it to sell and it’s costing us a fortune.

Thanks both, do you think he should be paying the bills? He's moved in without asking and mum's paying all the bills by DD still? I can't believe he's so cheeky!

Depends really. He kind of is doing a favour in terms of warding off burglars, mice, keeping it relatively clean, stopping the garden from going crazy etc. If he's running up huge gas and electric bills or trashing the place that's a different matter.

How long is mil expected to be around for?

Say it was left empty, mil dies in a few months but by then it's dusty and has mice, kids have broken in but the insurance is invalid because it was left empty. Sorting the house to sell it could cost you more than what bil is gaining.

I'd talk to him and agree he pays utilities, have a plan for when she dies. If there's zero chance of her coming home and you know who will inherit, he could be sorting things to prepare it for sale. Most older people's houses have a list of things as long as your arm that need doing.

There's a range of factors to take into account I would say.
What other accommodation does he have? Presumably if your mum was still living there and he had nowhere else to go she would let him stay with her?
The bills side, again they would be payable regardless but appreciate maybe not as much on gas, electric etc.
As a PP said it better on the whole for a house to occupied as stood empty.
If anything happens to your mum, you would have to cross that bridge when you get to it

Apply to COP for Deputyship. Does your mum pay her own care costs? If so, Local Authority will consider it an asset and look for a Deferred Payment arrangement to be entered into if she has insufficient money to pay. The OPG would want either it rented or sold and wouldn't agree to brother living rent free.

If mum owns the house it's an asset that needs to be taken into consideration in her financial assessment. What would you all like done with the house, is it to be sold, is there a will. Apply for deputyship and sell it if none of you are able or want to buy it.i don't think mim should be paying any bills, he needs to. The dwp and her bank also need to know she has moved into a carehome so they can adjust any benefits and council tax.

If it becomes necessary to sell the house to pay the care home fees when savings run out, the son living there now has no rights to remain as he is an able-bodied adult under pension age.

If you have the details for your mum's utilities can you change the names over, including council tax?

Not without poa or deputyship, the house will be in mums name not the son so there's no proof who he is. She would be exempt from council tax if she's permanently in a carehome. Having bills in his name might give him more rights to live there. The bills would be c /o poa/ deputy to mum name. Why has he moved in, where was he living before. Some insurance companies state you only need to visit once a week.

You don't need any proof of house ownership to change the name on a utility account.

The OP can't do anything without Deputyship to remove him, so he may as well pay the bills.

Has your DH and the other sibling had a conversation with their brother yet ? What was the outcome of this ? What reason did he have for moving in and what are his plans going forward?

If your MIL dies: if she has a will, whatever is in there will apply. Does your DH know whether there is a will and if so who the executors are? if she has no will then the rules of intestacy will apply.

If the house needs to be sold for care home fees, your DH or other family member can apply to the court of protection to become deputy and then they will be able to sell the property in her best interests. If no one applies, then the local authority can ask for a professional deputy to be appointed.

first though, the siblings need to speak about the house and about their mothers ongoing care needs.

Your mum has no capacity and nobody has LPA or Guardianship which is a nightmare waiting to happen. Someone needs to be focussing on that PDQ - who is managing her bills and finances at the moment if there is no LPA in place? Does she have a will and do you know who the executors are?

I assume CFB has a reason for moving in, but that the other siblings can talk to him about his intentions/expectations and contribution to bills in the meantime.

Does she own it ? It willl need to be sold to pay for her care

If it's rented then he can take it over but just cancel her dd for bills .

Apply for deputyship if you haven't already

My mum has both of those though and had a stroke . She did get a lot better after getting much worse so maybe don't write her off yet.

The hospital told us to put her in a home but she is still at home living independently ( with our support )

The utilities won't do that without having spoken to the present account holder. We went through that when my husband was terminally ill and we were trying to prepare by putting all the bills in my name. He was basically having to have the phone passed to him in his last weeks when he was struggling to speak.

I've never had that problem. I've rented for years and changed the account holders name to mine when I've moved in. I've informed Council Tax and all other providers. I've never had to get the previous account holders permission (impossible) nor shown proof of Tenancy. I've also changed utility providers with no problem at all

That's because the previous account holders will have contacted them to end the contract.

Yes. The previous or current occupier or their representative needs to inform the companies there is a new tenant, take meter readings and close their name and bank details down. There's nothing stopping you from paying someone's bills for them but if mum is in receipt of any benefits or discounts the companies need to know she's not living there. Someone just moving into their parents property permanently without poa or permission is not allowed, otherwise anyone could do that. Plus if he already has his own home then you need to declare which is your your main residence,

Seems a bit of a jump to assume he's got a bad motive and won't move out if there's a need to sell.

On the face of it, he's doing a good thing. Empty properties are vulnerable to crime as well as dilapidations that go with it being left empty - no one clearing leaves, looking out for ants/slugs/mice/wasps nests , sorting out the fence that's rotting that kind of thing

Also - is it his childhood home or just a later home the mother bought?

If it's his childhood home, it's possible part of the reason for moving in is for comfort/to feel closer to his mother as she was pre-dementia.

It's horrific watching someone you love disappear to dementia before your eyes. It's takes a big toll emotionally on those who love that person so I wouldn't assume it's bad motives.

I wouldn't expect him to pay the utility bills if it was my sibling because him being there will be cheaper than a house sitter or replacing windows or doors and lost items if there is a burglary. He will be paying for his own food and stuff so its only electricity. I'd be fairly relaxed if it was me but I've been there so maybe if you are just looking in (as the spouse rather than the child) you may see it a bit too clinically.

It might not be all bad. The place might well need keeping an eye on for a while.

My mum had a fall, went to hospital where she deteriorated further and after a few months ended up in a care home.
During this distressing time her home was burgled twice.

She had lost a lot of capacity but knew that her home was being sold to pay for care and wanted to visit there to say goodbye to the place. We had to keep making excuses until she was too far gone to remember as it would have caused her so much distress if she had known that all her jewellery and antiques had been stolen.

I have a similar situation and I have applied for guardianship (Scotland.) My lawyer was very clear that all bills had to be transferred to my brother as he was taking money from mum's care. She also said that I should be prepared to evict him.

I would suggest trying to get a clear agreement on the situation, why is he there and how long does he plan to stay? It could be helpful if he pays towards the bills , but not if he refuses to leave.

Is MIL self funding ? And does she have enough cash to cover care home bills or is housing going to have to be sold to cover fees with there being interim support from the council?.

I think your DH and siblings need to establish long term plans and formalise any arrangements (including bills and rent) at least in the short term until you get a formal Deputyship sorted out.

Things to consider:
Is there any deprivation of assets (ie if BIL is living rent free when house could have been rented out on open market). Sounds like there might be if mum is still paying bills. This won't matter if here's enough cash to pay fees.
Would MIL allow this if she had capacity?
Who is going to cover maintenance and repair? Is BIL going to want new carpets (for eg) and expect mum to pay?
Is BIL noted for being a CF/history of taking advantage? Is he likely to help himself to the goodstuff?
Plus once MIL dies BIL is going to potentially had have free use of an asset for a period of time worth say £1000/month for x period time over and above the other siblings. Personally that would annoy me as basically they were getting 'more' !

Your MILs situation is not going to get better so your DH and siblings need to apply for Deputyship via the court of protection (this will then enable the BILs occupation status to be set up properly).

There's at least three other similar tales on here where family have taken over a house if someone in a care home and it's been all but impossible to get them out once it comes to settling the will.

There might need to be some acknowledgement that sibling relationships might not remain intact.

I guess BIL is basically squatting. If he is indeed being a CF then you will have to go down a formal legal route via a solicitor which is likely to be expensive and long winded. Having said that its probably better to bite the bullet sooner rather than when he's been living there for 5 years rent and bill free.