French train inspector- was this abuse?

[traintocatch]

I was on a train in France yesterday. I was fined without being told in advance. I was initially told that I hadn't paid correct train fare and needed to pay the difference. I agreed to pay but didn't check the amount. Inspector left without handing receipt. I asked for receipt and only then realised I had been fined due to amount. I went after them and asked for ID as I wanted to lodge a complaint. They refused to give me their name. I got angry and tried to take a photo of them and also attempted to turn over the badge they were wearing on a lanyard. I touched the badge but not them. A fellow passenger intervened and calmed down the situation. I can't settle ever since - is this a case of me abusing the inspector in any way? They definitely abused their power and to fine me. I went to local information office and was told this is a common recurrence in this area. The info is not clear for tourists and they take advantage as they get 10% of each fine. My only worry is whether my trying to see their lanyard, thus touching it and trying to turn it is an offence?

I don't know the answer but I would advise you to be polite to ticket inspectors in France even if they are being twats.

You have a strong right to privacy in France and so people do take things like taking photos of ID very badly.

I've twice seen them just stop a train and get someone booted off in the middle of nowhere by armed train police for what seemed to be just a bit of arseiness.

Wow you were 100% unreasonable. Why would you think trying to turn someone's badge over was acceptable?! I don't know if I would call it abuse but you definitely violated their personal space.

So he took advantage of you? And stole money?

I think you're about even with him then and should move on with your life

Welcome to France.

Well I don't think I've been on a train in any country where not having a valid ticket for your journey hasn't been liable for an instant fine, so I think your complaint and arguing probably wouldn't get you very far anyway.

I don't know if I would term it abuse, but you didn't react appropriately. There was no need to try and touch their lanyard. I would imagine the identity of the ticket inspector could be ascertained by your photo and the fact that the train company would know what inspectors were in duty on the train. Trying to grab at an item on somebody's person angrily that is doing their job isn't OK.

Was he incorrect? Did you have the correct ticket and he lied to charge you the fine? Or did you have the wrong ticket?

If you had the wrong ticket then you’re getting a fine in France. He was wrong not to explain what you were being charged though; that’s sneaky. But you’d have to pay the fine anyway.

You were totally out of order to touch him. All this “I touched the badge but not him” is nonsense, you put hands on an item he was wearing around his neck. That’s absolutely disgusting behaviour, he was doing a job where they are at risk of assault and you put hands on him. Privacy laws there are different to; you had not right to a photo of his badge when he fined you for having the wrong ticket because you did have the wrong ticket.

There's nothing you can do now but just forget it.
There's a very slim chance the inspector could allege assault due to touching lanyard. (In security, if you touch lanyard they say you assaulted/tried to strangle them)
But it's pretty unlikely. If I were you I'd just either pay the fine now, or if you have to wait for a letter then just hope it never arrives. Or when it does just pay immediately.
But just don't mention to anyone in authority you touched guards lanyard. Unless they have video evidence you did do.

You were in the wrong especially in France

I don’t know the rules in France but if you did not have a valid ticket or did not pay the correct fare then I would say paying a fine was correct. I have never been fined for a travel ticket so can’t say for sure.

You said you became angry and tried to touch the lanyard, this is not appropriate behaviour. You have not said what your behaviour was like whilst angry so you could have been abusive but ask yourself this, would it be acceptable for someone to treat you like this for doing your job?

YABU. You should’ve paid the fine, stiffen up, go mildly red and mutter some swear words under your breath. Shake your head a lot. Text someone that you can’t believe what just happened and that you are livid. What you did instead is like jumping the queue.

I know I was wrong to touch the lanyard and was worried about the consequences. They were wrong not to explain what they were fining me. I paid on the spot but felt they should have explained what I needed to do. Another inspector who checked my ticket on the way out never told me I needed another ticket on top of pass I already had. I tried to explain but they were having none of it. I realised today that I had another myltipass for the attraction I traveled to which included the additional fee so all of that could have been avoided. Totally my fault for not reading the fine print. However, they never tried to help - were after the fine all along. And extremely rude. People at information office never explained what I needed to do either. Only when I went back they said it's misleading and that it happens often, unless you are told or read the small print you have no way of knowing. Of course I feel sick for loosing my temper. All it needed was a bit of guidance and human kindness. It was also obvious they were targeting tourists.

I went to local information office and was told this is a common recurrence in this area. The info is not clear for tourists and they take advantage as they get 10% of each fine

That's appalling.

I get why you were frustrated but you have to be so careful in these situations as any physical contact will make you the guilty one. I had a situation where a member of my staff provoked another and was really rude to him and he flicked her lanyard which was around her neck just to annoy her. She then claimed she was physically assaulted and he had to be dismissed. Different circumstances to yours of course but just to say his argument about her rudeness was completely invalid after that. All HR said was 'he made unwanted physical contact so he has to go'.

Totally my fault for not reading the fine print
And that should have been that. Yet, you seem to want to blame everyone else for what happened.

Nobody owes you an explanation. You had the wrong ticket, it incurred a fine, end of.

If you then felt you'd be charged wrongly, you had the option to file a complaint and ask for the money back.

Instead YOU were rude, aggressive and intimidating. You're just another Brits abroad giving us the bad reputation we hold because of that sort of behaviour.

It sounds like a very shitty situation but I am suprised you felt emboldened to reach out and touch his badge. Were you very angry? I just can't imagine doing something like, particularly in a foreign country to a man in authority. It seems kind of reckless.

Yes he should have explained better, but loosing your temper, demanding to see his pass, grabbing and trying to take a photo is really unacceptable
do you often have anger issues?

You really need to work on your aggression issues. This is not a normal way of acting, inside or outside of your country. He fined you based on the fare rules, he can't know that nobody had explained to you beforehand what you should have done and it isn't his issue, it's yours. Did you do all of this in English as well? If so, it's quite likely that his English wasn't good enough to explain to you why he had to fine you.

This is all on you, you need to learn how to cope with some people being rude to you without becoming aggressive and physically intimidating. You can't demand respect when you act like a thug.

You need to work on your temper. You’re not at all remorseful for having lost it, everything in your post is justifying how it was their fault, and your only worry is whether there’ll be any consequences. Their job is to inspect your ticket, not to hold your hand, and no one deserves to be assaulted while doing their job.

You are both in the wrong:

• he should not have fined you without explaining what was happening especially if you bought your ticket in good faith and were not given the right info from the ticket office
• you were wrong to film him and try to touch his badge.

If it is of any consolation, I am half French and I can't stand the general rudeness and arrogance that so many people show in that country.

I also think it is petty to pick on tourists who will very likely make mistakes when dealing with tickets/fares and who might struggle with the language.

I did admit I was feeling sick over my behaviour. It took me 2 days to recover as it's not something I usually do. I was angry at the way I was being fined without a proper explanation considering another conductor on the journey out didn't check my ticket properly and I was therefore unaware I was in the wrong on my way back. Their English was good enough to be able to talk through the situation. I tried to explain but they dismissed my queries, saying I needed to pay the ticket for the whole journey - the pass I had didn't cover one stop. Never was I told I was being fined. I guess they were on a hunt for misinformed tourists!

Thank you - I agree.

Their English was good enough to be able to talk through the situation.

You want an explanation, and in English? No, sorry. And never touch people without permission.

You do realise the same thing happens here when people haven't got the correct ticket and fines are issued. Would you have behaved the same way to a British ticket checker?

I wrote the post in "LEGAL" looking for legal advice. I know I was wrong to loose my temper. I should have been better then them. I knew that straight away. I have never been through anything like this before therefore the worry about potential consequences. I wish people read posts carefully before posting unhelpful comments.