Grandparents child arrangements order

[AndreaB1975]

Well, I'm a nana of 2 gorgeous grandsons, and my oldest son is their dad, he isn't either their mam but both have new partners. My son has completely turned his back on us. His family. He has been going through stuff but been awful to me. To cut a long story short, me and his step dad went yo try and sort our stuff with him, he got very angry, he went towards my husband I jumped in, we left but this really affected my husband, he rang the police and they advised us but they went to the mams house must be what they do, we said we had no safe guarding concerns so did she, 3 days later she stopped us seeing boys, and he has said it a few times. We have been in their lives constant had had them twice a month they stayed overnight, I went to my MIAM mediation meeting, she declined now I need to go to legal route. It's heart breaking. Solictor will try and negotiate if not I will need to get permission from court. If we have been constant in their lives will this be positive, I haven't seen them since may but feels ages xx any advice please..

Whether she complies or not is a different matter & this may prove to be a costly mistake for her as the Judge can make her pay our costs.

How would that be in your grandchildren's interests? Don't lose sight of what's important here.

So your son died 6 years ago and you haven’t seen your DGC since, except around the village? Is that correct?

Just remember, just because your solicitor says that doesn't mean the judge will rule that way. I don't mean to offend you but your solicitor only has your side of the story to go on, same with the mediator. They cannot say what will happen in court because they are not the judge. They don't have the mother's perspective. Six years is a long time and the kids may also be asked what they want.

Also, dumping legal costs on to their mother will directly impact the children and could blow up in your face. You may end up with an outcome that's worse than it is now.

At the moment the kids can chose when they're 18 to see you or not. If you turn them against you by bulldozing over their mum and causing financial problems they may chose not to have a relationship with you.

I wonder if your determination to fight is blinding you to long term consequences.

Tread very carefully because it seems like you might be getting some unwise advice at the moment.

@DutifulDaughterWifeMother

Who is this mediator you have employed? Proper mediators are impartial and would never pass a comment about the other side to you.

That is not what we want and we have stated that. We simply want to see our Grandchildren. We would do mediation tomorrow & work with the mother. Unfortunately the mother believes in Freeman of the Land.

I really feel for you @DutifulDaughterWifeMother , it must be heartbreaking.

How old are the kids now?

If they are above a certain age, the court may ask them what they want and would certainly listen. Are you mentally prepared for this possible outcome?

Just remember legal advice is just that, its not a guaranteed outcome. Your solicitor can advise you as to what rights can be asserted legally. They cannot say what the outcome will be.

Also you say you don't want to cause financial issues for the mother but regardless of your wishes you still will. She will need to defend herself in court. The kids will almost certainly feel that pressure at home. They may form a view based on how much stress this puts on their home.

Unintended consequences are often the most damaging.

The mediator was impartial, he simply told us next steps and stated we can come back to mediation any time. All we want is to be able to see and spend time with our Grandchildren. There are a few concerns which I won’t post on here. We know our son would want us to have a relationship with the children. We would love to be able to sit down and come to an agreement with her but unfortunately she won’t. So this is our only recourse and no we haven’t received bad advice. The decision to take this to family court has not been an easy one. All attempts to communicate are repeatedly ignored and we don’t want our Grandchildren to think we don’t love them.

those boys have a right to have a loving extended family in their lives

theres no point dressing this up as some sort of infringement of imagined rights. Families fall out with each other all the time. Parents decide what they want for their children. Going to court won’t make things better for anyone.

This 100%

Thank you & they are still young. When I say we were involved with the children we did all the care when the parents worked, nobody else ever looked after the children. The odd times the children have run over to us they always ask when they can come over and can we ask their mummy. If our son was alive now things would be so different.

OP these children are already living between two households which isn't going to be easy for them. Do you genuinely feel that what you are doing is in their best interests?

The hurt is palpable in your posts. You really must miss them a lot.

But, and I say this gently, that was 6 years ago. If they were little when you last saw them and talking to you they must be between 9-11 now. By the time this gets to court if they are around the age of 11 then there's a good chance the court will ask them what they want.

They may not respond the way you might like. Just be prepared for that.

Gently, whilst it's important to remember what your son would have wanted, their mother is their sole parent now and has been for a long period. If she can present her side effectively in court then they will listen to her.

The mediator wasn't impartial if they said what you stated they said about it not looking good in court. No one is obliged to attend mediation and the mother can chose not to attend. It doesn't impact her legal standing or right to a fair judgement. I'm surprised you were given that impression.

People tend to dress up what they want as being - who’d have thought it? - in the best interests of the children. The chances of the OP answering this question with a “no” are vanishingly small.

The OP also sounds very aggressive with some of her replies if she doesn’t agree with the comments!

Grandparent can have visitation rights with their grandchildren - it wrong to stop children see their grandparent unless they are toxic and/or harmful. I think court are more likely to grant access when parents are separated.

Grandparents will only be granted visitation rights if the court considers it in their best interests for them to do so. The judge has to view it as better for the children to visit their grandparents than not visit them. If there is aggravation between the mother and the grandparents and the children are being well looked after by their mother, the court would probably not consider it in their best interests best interests of the children to have visitation rights with their grandparents. The grandparents may then be offered other contact i.e. phone calls letter.
It is always in the best interests of the grandparents to try and get on with the mother.

The reality is very, very few people would cut off Grandparents who brought value, love, kindness and other positive things to theirs and their children’s lives, there wouldn’t be any point. I’ve yet to meet someone in real life where I’ve seen the Grandparents and felt surprised they’ve been cut off (granted I’ve only met 2 because it’s quite a rare thing to do).
Dragging the parent AND the children through court for what you want and costing the family financial hardship and stress in the process just proves they are right about you in my eyes. It’s just about what you want and ‘winning’ with no consideration to the impact on your Grandchildren’s household.

I personally wouldn't do this. It most cases it is the best interest of children to have some sort of contact with their grandparent but not necessarily scheduled visitation. It my experience judges are more likely to grant if there parents have separated. Often, the grandparents and the custodial parent may not get along - contact should not be based purely whether parents and grandparent get along. My mother and grandmother never liked each - this doesn't mean I should have never have seen my grandmother.

I tend to disagree with. Children often lose out on relationships when there is a family breakdown.

@Lavenderflower
It is not good for children to be caught in the middle when 2 people don’t get on. While this is unavoidable when marriages break down, judges can prevent this happening when 1 of the party is a grandparent. If grandparents want to see their grandchildren they should try and get on with both their grandchildren’s parents.
I am a very hands on grandparent and I don't think grandparents should have rights.

They aren't more likely to grant access to grandparents if parents are separated- it's even less likely. Why should children who are already going between two homes then have that upped to 3?

Sometimes they will if there is an established relationship. Having had the children twice a month overnight and seeing them regularly otherwise constitutes an established relationship. Wider rights and wrong aside, OP has the legal right to seek legal advice about this and consider court action.

I believe the court is less likely to go against two parents who are still together when they are both in agreement that the GPs shouldn't see the children.