Being threatened by buyer

[Anonanonanon1]

This might be a long one....

A few years ago I bought a tent for approximately £800 from a supplier in Germany.

It was an Outwell Rockland 5p.

When I came to use it the following year I arrived at destination in Wales to find poles were missing, meaning I had to purchase another tent to be able to continue the holiday.

The supplier was contacted and the missing poles were sent, but obviously too late for that holiday.

I didn't use the tent for 2 years as my teenage sons were not accompanying me on holiday and a large tent wasn't needed.
I finally used the tent last August, just over 2 years after receiving the poles.
It leaked. Not a little bit, a lot. 3 inches of water in the bedrooms, everything soaking. Cost a fortune to get everything dried only for a repeat the following night. Gave up and came home.

German company said it was a fortnight outside the 2 year warranty and would not refund.
Outwell said it was condensation and not their problem. Buck was passed to and from until eventually Outwell said they would send a replacement similar tent if I sent evidence that the faulty tent was destroyed. I provided this and a replacement tent was sent. Although I wanted my money back I accepted this.

This replacement tent was a 5 person tent but a larger living space and way too big for my needs as I am usually a solo camper by this time. I also had the emergency tent I'd purchased when I was in Wales with the poles missing, and this emergency tent suited my needs perfectly.

I advertised the replacement 5 person tent on eBay as new, unused, straight from manufacturer, still in the box it was delivered in, and hence within the guarantee period.

The tent was purchased for £570 by a man I will call John.
This was in November 2023.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago and I received another tent from the original German supplier. Clearly they had not been informed by Outwell that they had sent a replacement. This was another 5 person tent. It is still in it's box, only opened to see what it was. It's been sitting in my hallway as I've had other things to deal with.

A few days ago I received a text from John.
It seems John had been having problems pitching the tent he bought from me in November, and had been corresponding with Outwell complaining that the tent wasn't pitching correctly. Numerous emails seem to have been going back and forth between John and Outwell and it appears that despite the tent not pitching correctly. John has forced the zip on the door and torn the seam.

Outwell pointed out that the guarantee was between myself and them, and he said that I was his aunt and had given him the tent as a gift.
He wanted me to verify this.
I emailed Outwell and said that the tent John was having issues with was the one that they had sent me as a replacement for the faulty/leaking tent.

Outwell responded to John by saying that I had recently received a second tent, and as far as they were concerned I could honour the guarantee by giving him the second tent.

I said to John that I was sorry about his problems with the tent and I am more than happy for him to have the extra tent I was sent, and it's available for collection at his own convenience.

Unfortunately John wants me to refund his money in full.

I am not willing to do this. I think the issue was likely to have occurred due to incorrect pitching and he should not have forced the zip. A broken tent is no use to me.

John is now threatening to escalate the situation, which I assume means he is considering the small claims court.

It is, I think too late for him to resolve through ebay after 7 months?

I have also said that I am happy for Outwell to collect this extra tent if this would mean they would deal with him directly. John suggested both tents are returned to Outwell and I refund him in full which would then leave me over £800 out of pocket.

It is not my fault that the second tent was sent to me. I have made it clear it is available for collection by Outwell, the German supplier or John.... whichever would resolve the situation but John wants a full refund from me for a tent he has damaged.

My question is, if this went to a small claims court, would it get thrown out?
Would I be seen as reasonable in agreeing with Outwell's suggested resolution, and offering John the other tent?

Sorry this is so long but I don't want to drip feed.
I feel threatened and I want to resolve this.

Any advice massively appreciated.

As you sold the tent second hand as a private seller, you are only liable if the tent did not match the description, or you deliberately misrepresented it. The only issue you have is that you stated that the tent was within the guarantee period, implying that he would benefit from the guarantee when this was not the case. However, you have offered him a replacement, so I'm sure you will win if John takes this to court.

It would be a little different if you were running a business selling tents. John would then have more rights. However, as it has been more than 6 months since he bought it, it would be up to him to prove that the tent was faulty when he purchased it from you.

Thank you for your response.
If the tent was in the condition I sold it, then I would have considered a refund, but as John has forwarded all his correspondence with Outwell including photos and descriptions of how it wasn't pitched correctly as was raised in one corner (he said this was a manufacturing fault), but despite this he forced the zip door and split the seam, hence it is now broken and not weatherproof. I really don't think a refund from myself is a reasonable request. Especially as the sale was over 6 months ago.

I don't know what to say. I'm just hugely impressed by your tenacity. Most people would have thrown tent out with or without poles & be done with it!
Hope it gets resolved

You're being reasonable by offering him the other tent. However surely if you do have to refund him then you can sell the 2nd replacement and still be less out of pocket?

This story made me smile as it’s exactly the sort of situation I’d get myself into. Personally I'd keep all the email correspondence from all parties and tell John to shove it. I do tend to be fairly confrontational to bullies though.

Tell him to accept second tent or shove it.

OR give him a refund and then sell the second tent.

Yes. This is the worst case scenario.
I have received another email from him today, and I have been in contact with Outwell to let them know that I offered him the replacement tent and he rejected it.
I have also reread the emails between Outwell and John and they are very clear about what he did wrong when pitching it, and how he should have done it differently.
John very clearly states that he forced the zip and tore the seam.
I am awaiting the response from Outwell.
I strongly believe that were the contract of guarantee between Outwell and John, that he would not be eligible for a refund due to his pitching error and the damage that he caused as a result.

So he pitched it wrongly and then forced the zip?

You have evidence (the e mails) that that is what he did, so I would tell him you have no responsibility, and I would offer the second replacement tent back to Outwell.

He got a brand new tent for a good price. He tore it due to pitching it badly. Outwell have confirmed he's not covered by the warranty.

I would explain it's not covered by the warranty, you offered him a replacement as a gesture of goodwill, he refused. End of story.

He could repair it easily enough presumably if he chose to anyway.

Can it be pitched correctly? He is saying the zip ripped because the tent is faulty and cannot be pitched correctly. Can it?
If it can be pitched properly, then I would even give him the replacement tent. He had a perfectly fine tent and he broke it. He can’t demand a refund from a private seller after that.

The first response on this thread is all you need to know. You’ll be fine if he escalates. You don’t even need to offer a replacement but you did, so you’ll be fine.

This!
Stop having further interaction with John!
You made a private sale of a second hand tent. Consumer rights are different in this case. He has none, especially after so long.

You’ve done your best, offered the new erroneously delivered duplicate so I’d tell him to put up or shut up. He’s a bully.

I don’t get why you’re even offering him the second tent, frankly. It’s insane he thinks he can win against a private seller for something he has owned since November and then damaged himself!

I have offered it back to Outwell. They want the damaged tent back and for me to send the brand new one (rrp over £800), to John.
I am totally happy to comply and both Outwell and John are aware of this.
The situation current is John says he will escalate things if I have not paid by Saturday, and he is refusing to provide his address to either Outwell or myself.
I have given Outwell every bit of information I have to help them to track him down.

I have stopped communication with John.
However he is still emailing me.

Outwell are absolutely sure his pitching skills are the problem.
I don't actually know as I never took it out of the bag.
I would believe Outwell over the arrogant bullying John all day long though.
I have the email correspondence from Outwell explaining to John what he should have done when pitching. There are straps for adjustment which he clearly did not use correctly.

I think you’ve had a name fail change OP.

I’m surprised Outwell have honoured the guarantee to John to be honest. I would send a final email to both Outwell and John, confirming Outwell have send a tent to you despite John confirming his negligent use of the tent and therefore damaging it. The tent remains at your house for either John or Outwell to collect. You will not be conversing any further, but will happily deal with the collection of said tent. End of.

This!

I would have totally ignored John's batshit request for me to lie to the supplier about being his aunt, blocked him on all platforms and he would have received zero refunds or exchanges from me because it was a private sale. Then I'd have sold the second free-gift tent too.

The only thing I wouldn't have done is imply there's any sort of guarantee, because there isn't, that's between you and the retailer and can't be transferred to someone you sell to. You've dealt with that though by offering him a replacement tent, so on the off-chancce you did have any liability there you've absolved yourself.

John can jog on. I suspect he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on and he won't be taking it to court, that's why his first response was to bully the retailer and you. By engaging with him he now thinks you're a soft touch who will cave in if he keeps at it long enough.

I can't believe he contacted the retailer TBH. It's not your fault if John is too thick to realise or understand the difference between a shop sale of a brand new item and a private individual selling an item that became second hand the moment the individual took possession of it, even if it is brand-new-in-box and sold as such (unless you're about to drip feed that you sold it through an eBay shop you have?). Second hand purchases are always a gamble, this time he lost.

Ignore him, he's not your problem. He can't resolve it through eBay or PayPal after all this time, although he doesn't have grounds to there either since he was the one who broke it. It's good he's sent you evidence of this. If he's stupid enough to go to court he'll lose.

Stop trying to involve manufacturer or retailer, it's nothing to do with either of them and since they've both sent you a new tent I imagine they're pretty pissed off with you and John trying to get even more out of them, especially if you've been lying about being his aunt in an attempt to scam them.

I don't have an ebay shop.
I have purchased things on ebay before but this is my first sale.

Ignore and block John. He doesn’t have a case against you and he knows it. Your responsibilities as a private seller are pretty minimal other than ensuring the description matches what was received by the buyer.
Caveat Emptor applies here.

Even assuming he was stupid enough to raise a case, the judge will hear how he lied to the manufacturer about you being his aunt and that you offered him a free replacement tent which he turned it down.

I’d be blocking him and selling the second tent

Thanks for all your replies.
I am very grateful for your reassurance 🙏