Is it fair my son pays for everything

[Barb1512]

my daughter in law took my grandson 250 miles away, against what she promised in mediation. She left without warning and gave no forwarding address. It took my son two years and a lot of money to find his son and regain contact with his exwife. She agreed for him to come and collect his son to bring him back for a holiday, but last minute she sent a text saying she had moved again going a further 110miles away. That is an 8hr journey each way. So for the past 11 years we have been booking holidays near them and having my grandson for a week. It costs us c£1500 for each trip and we go three times a year. we pay all expenses and she won't even bring him the 5 miles to the cottage. now though, the price of the cottages has virtually doubled and it is impossible to pay £3000 per trip PLUS full child maintenance, PLUS my son buys him clothes, shoes, football boots, coats etc. Is it fair he has to pay so much because she chose to move so far away?

Sounds like she fled…

It’s absolutely not fair, but I would think there’s very little to be done. It doesn’t sound like the ex is a reasonable person. Would it still be possible to manage twice a year visits, or look for much cheaper accommodation?

Is it fair? From what you've posted here, no. Why hasn't your son sought legal advice before, as soon as she moved away? Or if he did, what was he advised then?

I think you are telling a tiny portion of the story.

why did she flee your son?

If his costs for contact are excessive he could ask for consideration to having maintenance reduced.

He could also choose not fund all the extras.

Does he have lots of phone/video call contact? It isn't forever. As an older teenager his son could fly or train part of the way.

I am not sure if your son got advice at the time but normally you'd go to court at the point she initially moved away.

At this point given its been so long I'm not sure what he can do. Because 11 years later he will be established in his current location.
However what you can do is look for somewhere nearby that's cheaper. Surely this cottage can't be the only place? He can also apply to have him for the holiday so that he could get the child and bring him back to his home maybe staying over 1 night given the distance.
At some point the child will be old enough to travel on their own by train so in a few years that may also be a possibility.

In terms of expenses, presumably this is not via CMS ? He could go down that route but likely to antagonise her so I'd think carefully on that and focus on maybe changing the holiday arrangements

What a very strange situation. Why did she run so far and so suddenly? People don’t tend to just do that for fun. And then to go further when he was due to come see them? Just sounds like there’s a lot more to this than you’ve said.
To be honest now this boy is, at a minimum, 13 years old, he could soon certainly be looking at travelling some of the way on his own, which would be considerably cheaper. Flying, for example, or on the train, dependant on the journey. Dropped off by mum one end and collected by dad the other, of course.

OP I'm sorry so many posters have jumped down your throat and implied there is more to the story...she must have fled and not even bothered to read your OP that says he spent time and money tracking them down and didn't just sit on his arse.

I have no advice but she sounds super unreasonable and you sound like a very desperate grandparent

Him spending two years trying to track them down and not sit on his arse does not mean she didnt flee.

op, if this is the only time he gets to see his child, do you need to be there every time?

It sounds like the best option is to have him at home, even though the travel is inconvenient it is not £3000 for a week.

Can someone drive up one day, stay in a travelodge and drive him back home with you the next day?

What did the court decide was fair? I mean... surely he did go to court once he'd spent all that time and money tracking them down?

that doesn't explain anything.. he could have been an abusive stalker for all you know.

to those suggesting she fled my son, she had no reason to flee him. She was an abuser, she beat him up, and told lie after lie about all of us. Social services here said she was not a fit mother and needed lots of courses and anger management before she could look after the baby. I fostered the baby, as decided by social services, for the 8 months from 3 months old, so I had all the sleepless nights and weaning etc with him, before social services decided she could have him back, then she decided. My son was told all the time he was with her, he couldn't have the baby, which is why their marriage broke up and she decided to go to Scotland, where she had lived a couple of years previously. We knew she wanted to go to Scotland, but she promised she would never take the boy away from us, and social services said due to my complete involvement in his first months, I should be involved in his life too. But she would not listen to anyone. Even her own mother said she had washed her hands of her, having been also beaten up by her own daughter! so please, do not insinuate my son was anything but caring and loving towards his son and he did go to Scottish solicitors and got the necessary orders to see his son. When we go to
Scotland we have to rent at least 3 bed property as we all need a room each, and if my daughter comes in the summer, we need four bedrooms. So the accommodation is the cheapest for its size. My grandson loves his aunty and keeps asking for her to come too, so we try to accommodate everyone, as we only see him 3 times a year. My son has gone up odd weekends but it's not easy as the drive is 8hrs on a good day, up to 12 on bad days. We spend the week between christmas and New Year there, so naturally we all want to be together, we also go Easter, but we are never allowed (by his mother) to ever have him Christmas day or the actual Easter Days. Since she went to Scotland she has had many 'boyfriends' so there are men going in the family home, who we don't know and she has three other children by three different men too. There is a long story of her having had several abortions, beating up people, and all sorts, but social services are not interested in the children's welfare it seems. We worry ourselves about how safe all the children are with her and her men friends, but what can we do. My son has asked his son's school to let him know of any problems with his son or if they have any concerns. etc. what more can he do?

To answer your question what can you do:

If you have evidence of her beating people up you can go to the police

If you have evidence of her mistreating her children then you can report her to the local social services

Also social services do talk to each other and her file will have been transferred up there once they realised she was there.

but we are never allowed (by his mother) to ever have him Christmas day or the actual Easter Days.

And that is why he should have court ordered days. What was the outcome of him going to court for visitation? Normally they state who has what days, as well as finances. If she refuses then he needs to keep going back to court. Has he?

Given all that, why isn't he going to court for full residency rather than worrying about the cost of maintenance and what is clearly a family holiday rather than visitation.

He definitely needs court ordered access in that case. He can then pursue things if she doesn't comply. This should stipulate holiday arrangements and there's no reason you can't go and get him and bring him home during the holidays

He needs to go to court. He can ask for an adjustment to his maintenance to account for costs involved in seeing his son due to her moving. I don't think it would cover your costs just his.

Why on earth hasn’t your son gone to court to get court ordered access? Just, why?!

My son went through the courts 11 years ago. Social services were the ones who told us about my DiL's past, beating her mum up, having abortions, taking overdoses, and much more. All before my son met her. They knew everything, the courts knew everything, my son hasn't even now, got one blemish against his name, not even a driving offence, yet she was given custody. My son hasn't even been out with another woman since his divorce, because he doesn't want to risk getting involved with someone else the same way and he couldn't afford another family anyway. He is a quiet, placid person and doesn't want to go near her as if he tried to defend himself she'd go to the police accusing him of God knows what. He hasn't ever laid a finger on her, but social services don't care about the truth of the matter. Like most of the establishment, they just assume it is the man doing the harm. Well my son wasn't accused of anything because he walked away as soon as she started, but to put it in his words "women are always in the right according to Social Services" - they seem to have a mantra "a bad mother is better than a good father". He hasn't any knowledge of her life now, because he doesn't ever see her. they make arrangements via email only, but she has stopped responding to my son. My grandson answers the door when my son knocks for him and he goes back indoors himself, when dropped off. There is nothing my son can take to court, other than she is making life impossible to see his son. Yes it is a family holiday because we all love my grandson and we can't see him other than travelling for 8hrs each way! My son has been on several weekends but to see his son for the Saturday and Sunday he has to fly or drive up on a Friday and come back on the Monday. He has a responsible job and it is not easy getting long weekends outside of bank holidays, and not many flights go from nearby airports to Inverness. I sense some of you don't believe my son is innocent in all this, that maybe he doesn't care etc, but he does care, he's very upset but as his son has got older, he understands more, and my son doesn't want his son's life made difficult, or him stopped seeing his father altogether, because if my son even gets a solicitor's letter sent to her, she will abscond like she has every time anyone has tried to get her to abide by the rules! My son has no faith in social services or courts anymore as it cost him thousands to get court orders she just ignores but the courts won't do anything. They say she makes her son available, so they can do no more. The police were the only ones who recognised who the true culprit was, but they couldn't sway social services and were not asked to go to court. There was not much they could say that was not already said by SS, other than in their opinion the one time she had a bruise on her arm, claiming my son had done it, the police know my son was not even in the house when it apparently happened. Anyway, none of this helps. We cannot afford to go until Christmas now, and no I won't be going because of my health problems. I am sure I will never see my grandson again as my health is fast deteriorating. My son says he has to remain in contact with his son, because he believes one day, when he is older, his mother might make his life too bad and he will be looking for somewhere to go: my son wants to be his son's first place to come to, somewhere he will be able to live without her psycho actions. If she runs now, we might never find her again. My grandson loves being with us, we would love to have him here, for holidays yes, but hopefully, when he needs his dad, he will know where we are.

Why doesn't your son just pick him up and ask him what he wants? 8 hours isn't that far it can be driven overnight if needed.

Why did you foster your grandchild instead of the child being placed with your son? I can't see why that would happen unless there were some serious concerns about your son and his ability to look after the child.

Social services were the ones who told us about my DiL's past, beating her mum up, having abortions, taking overdoses, and much more.

Hmmm, so they shared personal medical information with him. Not sure why he needed to know about her abortions at all, ever. I suspect she could sue SS for breach if she found that out. Or your son is exaggerating.

PP, makes a valid point. Why did SS get you to foster instead of your son? And I still don't get why he didn't try to enforce the court order in the beginning.

Is it YOU who is the driving force behind it all and your son is just along for the ride?

EDIT - my son wants to be his son's first place to come to, somewhere he will be able to live without her psycho actions.
If you want the grandson to be in your life when he is older then maybe you should start moderating your language. He won't be impressed to hear you call his mother a crazy psycho. Ever.

first of all I have never said a bad word against his mother to him or when he has been with us!
Secondly my son didn't get his son because first of all he was living with the mother as husband and wife, then when he left he had no home other than mine but because at that particular time, my daughter in law was making up all sorts of crazy stuff that the police knew was all rubbish, social services said neither parent could have the baby until they could determine what was right. My grandson had some pink marks on him which a doctor failed to recognise at the time were chicken pox viral marks. Both parents said nothing had happened to the child, but SS were just in the news regarding a mistake they had made and a baby died, and they were trying to prove they were competent. Three days later the baby developed the worse case of chicken pox I've ever seen. Independent doctors I took him to stated there would be such pink marks anywhere on the baby prior to developing chicken pox and his older brother had them at the time!! My son had to go and live with my daughter 60 miles away until the SS determined the baby was safe and my son was allowed to come to live with me and the baby. My son had been told in conference, which included me as the baby's 'foster parent', that he could only have the baby if he wasn't living with his wife!
Thirdly, I am not the driving force in all this. I just say to my son what you are all saying, take her back to court and get them to make her comply, but my son has said that if she even gets a hint of any legal action against her, she will disappear with the kids and my son will have to spend thousands trying to find her again. Her own mother left Scotland because she has washed her hands of her daughter. So has her own sister. They live in the south of England now!!
Lastly, SS did reports on both my son and his wife. These reports went into great detail about their own childhood, life events, etc. which is where all the info about her came out. We knew none of it before the reports were issued as ordered by the courts. My son had a single page report stating he was brought up in a family home, both parents, and there were no recorded incidents of any kind on record. Her report was ten pages long, full of all the stuff I have mentioned and more. It was the report which made SS prolong the case and I had the baby for about 8 months, whilst they 'reformed' and taught my DiL how to be a mother! my son kept asking for his baby, but as I said, SS round here seem to always make the wrong choices thinking a 'mother' is better always, than a father, no matter how good that father is. As for why he didn't go to court this time: My DiL has been making her son 'available' which is all the court was interested in. Everything else is up to my son. But if my son just took his son and brought him here against her wishes, believe me, she will never allow it again! This year is the first year in 11 she has started being unreasonable again. She has been happy for my son to do all the paying, buying his son clothes, shoes, pyjamas, dressing gowns etc, as she sends him with next to nothing to wear when he comes to stay in our holiday cottages. I have given my son thousands so he can see his son, which I have been happy to do, but the prices of the accommodation has soared this past couple of years, and we could only afford one holiday and a couple of weekends. We just thought it would be nice for him to have a proper holiday, away from where he actually lives, at our house, where he has his own room waiting for him, and we could spend the money saved on accommodation, on taking him out and about and having fun. Why his mother won't allow this is anyone's guess. She's always allowed him to come to us for a week at a time without making any fuss for the last ten years or so! So, the reason my son hasn't gone back to court is because it was only this past Easter she has started refusing. I don't have any communication with my DiL nor do I contact my grandson on social media other than when my son and he bring my daughter and me into our WhatsApp group and to say happy birthday/xmas etc. My son has refrained from going to court these past few months because he has been hoping she would see how upsetting her refusal is to her son. But as she is not responding to emails/texts/phones calls from my son, he doesn't know why she is being like this. Unfortunately, life is not black and white. It sometimes happens that women are the abuser against men. The problem is, some people don't or won't accept that. They always have to look for what they believe is the 'truth': that the man is doing the abusing. Well my son has never hit anyone in anger and certainly not a woman and certainly not his wife. He will walk away first and try by diplomatic means, to solve a problem, but some women can't be reasoned with. I personally, have never known a woman to be so controlling and manipulative. She locked my son in their bedroom once; she refused to let me have the child's benefit money when I was looking after him and I had given up my job to care for him so I spent over £4000 of my pension pot to provide for him. My son had lost his job because he had only just started a new position when all the SS involvement started and he had to move to his sister's home. So only my DiL was able to work and took all the child benefit. SS gave me £80 a week after the first 4 weeks, which barely kept the child in food, milk, nappies etc. I got into debt, my son got into debt, my daughter had to provide him with food etc. But my DiL was allowed to keep all the money AND work and not pay a penny towards her own baby's care. She was allowed one supervised visit a week, with me, but she rarely came. I also had her older son (18months old) to care for and his father wasn't even told by SS that I had his son!! So my DiL was getting his monthly child maintenance too, without handing over a penny to me! I am not going to go on, as I feel I am having to justify myself to a lot of you, which isn't what I asked. My son has been traumatise by all this, he is reluctant to start it all up again. He keeps hoping his ex will see sense, or his son will make her realise he wants to see his dad. Maybe he should go back to court, but technically she hasn't broken the last court orders, as they say she must make him available, not pay, not take him anywhere and if my son books a place to stay near them, he will be available!! my son doesn't want to have to spend thousands on courts cases that he hasn't got, which would take money away from being able to get to see his son, if only for a weekend. thanks to those who seemed to understand, but maybe it's me just needing to know if anyone had any ideas about Scottish laws and what else my son could try that wouldn't entail her fleeing again.

Sounds so tough OP. I have no experience of Scottish law so I don't know what to advise other than soon the boy will get old enough to express his own opinions and all your DS can do is try to be there as much as he can.