Will and Probate

[whattha]

My mum recently passed away and I am helping my Dad deal with paperwork. My Mum and Dad both wrote wills through a will writing company in 2016. They have copies of both wills (mum and dads) but neither are signed. I tried to contact the will writer to see if copies are held ( my dad says they are) but they went out of business in 2021. I am assuming that they have been kept on the national data base of wills? I paid a fee for a will search but not heard anything back.
Most of their finances are joint but my Mum had £25k in her own name-probable is needed for this. They have a 2nd property in joint names so I presume that this can just be changed to my dads name through land registry.
Their main residence it states in the will that my mums share is passed to myself and my two brothers but with my dad living in it until his death. So I presume we will need a solicitor to deal with this and change with land registry?
Any guidance from anyone would be much appreciated.

Most wills are not on the national will register. If you can't get a signed copy of the will, you will have to treat your mother as dying intestate.

If the second property is held as joint tenants, it is now your father's. However, if they were tenants in common, 50% of it belongs to your mother's estate and needs to be dealt with in accordance with your mother's will or the rules of intestacy.

Unless you can find a signed copy of the will, what it says about the main residence is irrelevant. Also, the provision in the will only works if the house was held as tenants in common. If it is held as joint tenants, the house now belongs to your father.

Thanks for that, the main residence was changed to tenants in common at the time of the will. My dad keeps saying that they paid to register it so I am hoping this means it is on the national wills register. My dad is to get everything else in her name but I was hoping to avoid extra hassle. My dad pretty much left everything to my mum but I can't believe that they never signed their copies of the will.
Can I ask you a question please about inheritance tax? Say she is treated as dying in estate then everything goes to him. Jointly, their estate is less than £1 million. Does this means that in the event of his death, it will be under the threshold as I think her allowance is taken into account? That is my understanding.

If you contact the solicitors regulations authority they will hold any paperwork for solicitors that no longer operate

"Say she is treated as dying in estate then everything goes to him. "

Not necessarily. It all depends on the value of her estate.

If you add up the whole value of her estate, including her 50% share of the house and any money in her own name etc then if that comes to less than £322,000 then, yes, everything goes to your dad if they were married at the time of her death.

If her estate is worth more than £322,000 then your dad gets the first £322,000 and then anything over that amount is split 50/50 with any children or grandchildren of your mother.

So, let's say that your mum's estate is worth £422,000 in total. In this case, your dad would get the first £322,000 and then with the remaining £100,000 it would be split with him getting £50,000 and the other £50,000 being split between any children of your mother.

However, if you want your dad to get everything then you can simply pass your share of the money on to him.

"Jointly, their estate is less than £1 million. Does this means that in the event of his death, it will be under the threshold as I think her allowance is taken into account?"

If a person leaves everything to their surviving spouse in a will then, yes, there is no inheritance tax to pay. Your dad will also be able to make use of your mum's allowances as well, which is where the £1 million figure comes from.

However, that £1 million figure is made up of two different things. Everyone has an allowance of £325,000 so 2 x £325k = £650k

There is also an allowance of up to £175,000 each if you leave your main residence to a direct descendant. 2 x £175k = £350k and £650k + £350k = £1 million

The amount you can claim depends on the value of your property. So, for example, let's say your parent's house is worth £300k net after any mortgage. This would mean that your mum's share of the house is worth £150k.

In that case, she (or, rather, the executors) could only claim £150k not £175k

However, if she has died intestate and the estate goes to your dad then I don't think that the allowance for the main residence will pass to him.

Thanks for this. Ther joint assets at time of death were £550k for main residence, £210k for second property both paid for in full and cash in bank probably no more than £100k. At death my dads estate will go to his three children. Can you foresee his estate getting charged I hesitance tax if he were to pass away tomorrow? We will seek legal advice but just want to try and get my head around it all. Thanks for everyone's response. It is all so horrible to have to talk about these things when someone dies. Hoping and praying we can find the signed will.

Ps with i nor my brother want or expect any inheritance from my mums estate. I am just worried that if we can't get the will copy we will eventually end up with a tax bill.

To make matter worse. I have just looked on the Soliciors regulations Authority and searched for the name of the person who wrote the will and if is the same person her was struck off as a solicitor in 1994! Is it possible for a struck off solicitor to work as a will writer (as this person was) if they have been struck off?
Honestly, you could make this us. First unsigned wills, dissolved will writing company and a will that seems to have been written by a struck off solicitor!

Will writers are not regulated. A struck off solicitor can work as a will writer as, indeed, can anyone.

Sorry for your loss, OP.
Anyone can set themselves up as a will writer, totally unregulated. Will writers often charge to store Wills (unlike solicitors who often store free of charge), so this is probably what your parents paid for. There are rules about what should happen to Wills if a solicitor shuts down , in that the Wills are transferred to another firm. I am afraid I have no idea if there’s any similar requirement for Will writers, but as they’re unregulated I would imagine not.
The search of the National Will Register can take a month or so, as they email local solicitors as well even if the Will isn’t registered, so fingers crossed this is successful for you. Otherwise, do go and take legal advice as they will be able to help you.

@whattha to answer one of your questions, jointly your parents should each have a IHT threshold of £325k = £650k plus up to £175k each depending on the value of their home and if they left part of their estate to their DC. As their home is £550k this = joint RNRB of £350k so £1m in total.

£550k + £210k +£100k = £860k

If you cannot find a signed will the laws of intestacy will apply. Any monies left to your Dad do not reduce the IHT, any monies left to the three DC will reduce the IHT allowance but anything left can transfer to your Dad.

Good news!
I've managed to track down the signed wills from the will writer who apparently is not the same person as the struck of solicitor they are just unfortunate to share a relatively
common name.

Thanks for everyone's comments.
So my parents main residence they are tenants in common. They did this when we were younger in case of one of them dying and their share ending up going to a new partner.
As my mums share will go to myself and my brothers, does this influence the IHT at all because her share isn't going to my dad? Effectively the share of the main residence is £275k. Aside from this she only had £25k in her own name the rest is all joint.
Does leaving it to us reduce the IHT threshold for them as a couple? My mum would be mortified if they had made a mistake by doing the tenants in common thing leaving them likeable to inheritance tax. If that makes sense. I think they are ok though? Obvs will seek legal advise but I am helping my Dad as his memory isn't great and he is partially deaf so gets the wrong end of the stick a lot. But I want to make sure that his estate is all in order while he is alive and not have some unexpected shocks further down the line.

Ps apologies for the typos spelling errors. I am so tired from dealing with all this stuff. I am determined that my Dad gets his house in order as it no joke when you have to pick up the financial pieces when someone dies and your upset enough all ready. My blood runs cold everytime I come across something that is going to cause a nightmare- for example the now resolved unsigned wills.My Dad doesn't even have access to his savings and has no idea how much is in his accounts. I only know as my mum told me in conversation a while back.

Where there’s a trust or potential tax you should get advice if you’re unsure, as of course no one can tell you for 100% certain without seeing the wording of the Will and having the full picture.

However, generally speaking, this type of trust would be treated for inheritance tax purposes as if the asset had passed to your father and, assuming they are married, would be exempt from Inheritance tax.

@whattha please stop worrying. Either the £275 reduces your Mum’s IHT threshold now and the remainder passes to your Dad or the £275 passes to your Dad along with your Mum’s IHT allowance and in the end it comes out of their joint IHT threshold. The end the result is the same.

I agree with a pp get legal advice who can explain exactly how it works based on the wording in the will.

I can’t help re CGT or IHT but your OP referenced a ‘change with land registry’.
The key here is understanding what arrangements both parents had in place, both re the registered information and their wills, trust etc.
We register the legal ownership. So on Mum’s death the legal ownership passes to Dad. The share you refer to relates to her beneficial ownership and that still exists but to some extent is in the background re legal ownership as Dad stays put living in the property. The plan was that only when both had passed away then things can change to help realise their wills/trust and essentially how their beneficial shares are dealt with.
So at this stage there’s no need to change the land register. The death is sadly factual and with Dad continuing to live there nothings needs to be changed. Whilst it’s always worth considering if a change re ownership is warranted or a good option looking ahead we can’t advise on that as we register the outcome of such decisions. The key point is though that if the legal ownership is to be altered then it’s for Dad to transfer it.

Thanks for this. I will look at the wording on the will tomorrow as I have an unsigned copy until we get the signed one.
I checked the Land registry today and they are 'Tenants in Common'. The will then talks about my mums share going to her three children, something about a trust but that my Dad will be able to live their for the remainder of his life. Neither one of us expect or want any thing from the property anyway until my Dad passes. My Dad was thinking that he needs to remove my Mum from the Land registry and add us on there - but that doesn't reflect the percentage i.e 50% My Dad, 16.6% me, 16.6% DB1, 16.6% DB2.
Obvs will get legal advise but I appreciate you trying to give me a better understanding. So the land registry just stays as it is with my Mum's name on it and we don't have to worry about it until My Dad passes away? So we keep my Mum's will safe with his until then?

That’s broadly correct - we don’t deal with the wills, trust or % beneficial shares so what you need to do depends solely on what each of you wants/expects and how any change to the legal ownership might impact eg second home etc
As for the death the register can be updated at any time as the death is a sad fact. So again no need but something to consider
Our online assisted guidance helps depending on what happens next, if anything