House let without gas/ electrical safety certificates

[Babaretceleste]

Hi everyone

I rent an expensive house in London with my family (two kids), which is being sold by my landlord with us in situ as tenants. As part of the exchange process, a gas safety check was conducted. A “dangerous” leak was discovered and the gas supply cut off until new piping was installed and the gas rerouted. Our gas oven was also condemned as dangerous and disconnected.

It turns out, now I’ve looked into legal requirements and what has/ hasn’t been done, that my landlord hasn’t done a gas safety check for 5 years! He should have done so annually. Nor has he done an electricity safety check. None of the legally required certificates exist so the tenancy has been illegal for 5 years!

Do we have a claim against the landlord for rent repayment/ damages?

Do we have a claim against the (leading) estate agent which let us the property and continued to gather the rent/ charge commission without checking these certificates existed/ were being renewed.

Many thanks for any advice. I am truly speechless with horror at what might have happened/ the health implications for my family.

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/02/i-can-serve-gas-safety-certificates/

As far as I know (although not a housing expert whatsoever) this is still the current position. As in they need to supply gas safety check prior to commencement of original tenancy or else S21 is void and the tenancy is illegal. And even then some people were complaining that that is too onerous. So failing to update the gas safe is a lesser breach.

Thanks to everyone except the person who called me “grabby and unhinged”. I feel that was a little harsh… though I do feel a little unhinged after days without hot water/ all the appliances being stripped from my kitchen/ danger notices all over the place and not being able to cook for a week

Why does the fact that Foxtons is listed make a difference?

I understand from asking around landlords I know that most London estate agents chase them re safety certificates and offer to organise them (at the landlord’s cost) even when they do not manage the property. They also share them with the tenant.

My Foxtons online tenancy account (which I never went on till all this) has a “documents” section for EPC and safety certificates to be uploaded alongside the tenancy agreement. This suggests they’re pretty key!

I can't understand the victim blaming on here! I'm a landlord and don't expect my tenants to know the law regarding their rights. It's my job to act within the law at all times, without needing to be reminded to do so by tenants. Many of my tenants are young and/or from overseas and don't have a clue about the ever changing regulations but that's fine: it's on me to provide them with a safe, secure home regardless.

Your landlord is in a very vulnerable position. They need to be able to demonstrate that you were served with the latest "Right to Rent" booklet, that they served you with the relevant paperwork about your deposit, that they've carried out annual gas safety checks throughout your tenancy and given you the relevant paperwork from those etc. I hope Shelter will support you in reporting the landlord to the relevant authorities and that he will face the consequences of his actions.

I don't know about compensation. I doubt you'll get much, though you should definitely be entitled to something for being without functioning gas appliances at the moment. I hope Shelter can advise you on this too.

I hear your anger and I understand exactly why you feel that way. This man has been cavalier about your household's safety, whilst taking huge sums of money from you.

I hope they throw the book at him.

Thanks. I really appreciate the supportive post and your penultimate paragraph sums up the anger I feel.

For those people who say we “have not been impacted”…. no, none of us have been diagnosed to date with a medical condition related to gas exposure. My husband has had a few health issues while living here we would never have thought might be to down to this because we weren’t aware of it (and maybe they weren’t).

This is the kind of thing that haunts you if, god forbid, one of your kids does get ill. I know that as a member of my family did die from a rare condition and I cannot put in words the amount of time we have spent raking over the past/ wondering whether this or that environmental factor may or may not have contributed.

It is not acceptable - those safety requirements are there for a reason. And it doesn’t matter how much we paid in rent.

Yet it’s taken you 5 years to look at your tenant account….like I’ve previously said, your landlord should be meeting his legal obligations, but you also have personal responsibility

Yes, thanks Jeezitneverends. I communicated directly with Foxtons, not via my tenants account, and my conversations with them should have put them on notice of how very negligent my landlord was in all kind of ways!

But, yeah, blame the victim! I have learned my tenant rights and will be more on to them next time. That doesn’t mean I should just suck it up (the dangerous gas!)

You are understandably annoyed, but your OP is very OTT.

You didn't answer my question as to whether any boiler servicing or checks had been done in the time you've lived there? A gas safety check may have been done at the same time (only takes about 20-30 mins, depending on house size). Forgetting to upload the documents is different to never having done the checks.

How much do you know about the "dangerous" gas leak? It may be small and recent, but any gas leak has to be investigated and the gas shut off/ do not use stickers are standard procedure. What was the problem with the gas oven? Or was it simply disconnected because the gas generally was disconnected?

It's strange that your first thought is "can I claim against the landlord or the estate agent?" You seem very obsessed with the money side of things. Are you from the UK? The UK generally isn't as litigious as, say, the US.

The fact that you rent an "expensive house" is irrelevant. The same laws apply to all renters. Do you think that because you rent somewhere expensive your right to gas safety checks is more important than others who rent more cheaply? 🤔

If Foxtons were the managing agents, then it is they who are negligent and haven't completed the checks/ uploaded the documents, not the landlord. This is what LLs pay agents to manage.

They are the letting agent - they collect the rent/ press for rent rises (which involves maintenance discussions) but they don’t actively manage the house because the criminally negligent landlord hasn’t paid them to do so (course not!)

I don't think the OP will ever accept that she is not entitled to compensation here....

😂
And yet up to now she's been renting quite happily from this landlord for FIVE years?

I don’t recall any boiler servicing. The boiler has never been broken

I can understand you might forget to share one gas safety certificate - but all the rest? And the electricity certificate too? The agent selling the house has confirmed there are none.

I was told the gas leak was dangerous. The gas supply was cut off. The report has dangerous printed across it diagonally.

The oven failed separately. It is an old fashioned kitchen range, the hob and oven of which you light with a match. It was disconnected by the gas safety guy and thus, when the gas supply was turned back on, it still could not be used. I had to sign a warning notice confirming I understood this installation/ appliance was immediately dangerous and I could not use (the landlord nevertheless sent the local handyman - not a gas engineer - to try and fix it).

The engineer said he did not know how long gas had been leaking and, owing to the lack of checks, we will never know.

Yes, my question was re claiming for rent rebate/ compensation. I don’t see why we should dutifully pay while the landlord ignores all requirements on his part, first and foremost of which is ensuring our safety.

I am English, not American. I am not obsessed with money. As I said above, the amount of rent does not matter (I suppose may have lulled me more into a sense to security….. but any tenant should be able to expect a safe home)

not happily - many, many issues - but I don’t think our other gripes are relevant to this post.

We rent here because it is our family home, we have ties to the neighbourhood, we might not find something equivalent. Like many tenants, the fear of being homeless in a difficult London rental market

https://www.gassafetycerts.com/article/can-i-sue-my-landlord-for-no-gas-safety-check

To bring a claim you typically need quantifiable loss. So have you checked your gas bills to see if they are substantially higher? That would be a “loss”, but I doubt it would be worth the hassle of bringing a claim in a small claims court.

OK, well I agree that if it is as you state in your update then your landlord does sound negligent in that area. However you'd have a hard time claiming any form of compensation.

A gas safety check is just a snapshot in time. A problem could develop the day after it and wouldn't be picked up for almost another year if you were relying on the annual check.

Did you have your own Carbon Monoxide monitor (£15 from B&Q)?
Did you smell any gas? (Most significant gas leaks are picked up this way).

Even as a tenant you are expected to take some self-responsibility for noting and reporting day-to-day issues arising.

If there had been a major gas leak in your kitchen, you would have had an explosion when you lit a match for the oven!

Now if you'd been reporting a smell of gas for many months and the landlord had failed to act, that would be another whole matter entirely!

In fact though, I think tenants are encouraged to report any suspected gas leaks directly to the energy provider aren't they?

You absolutely do have a case against the LL. The fact that a gas leak has been found with no saying how long it's been there is further evidence in your favour. Ultimately even if the property is managed the responsibility is with the LL however you should create merry hell with Foxton's. Maybe start with a tweet tagging anyone high up the food chain. They will be a member of various professional bodies - you should complain to all of them. The rules are there to protect you and there are consequences. Do you have any insurance which has legal cover included?

Gosh, well that would have served us right, wouldn’t it, if there had been an explosion in our kitchen…given our lack of “self responsibility” and reliance on others fulfilling basic legal requirements!

Gosh, well that would have served us right, wouldn’t it, if there had been an explosion in our kitchen…given our lack of “self responsibility” and reliance on others fulfilling basic legal requirements!

Thank you, merry hell is what I plan!

Will look into insurance

Have a Google of the case law that defines UK landlord/tenant law in the UK. Look up "Lord Denning - Behaving in a Tenant-Like Manner"
You might be surprised what tenants are actually considered responsible for!
(Hope you've re-pressurised your boiler regularly?)

However in this case, there is no question - yes the gas safety checks should have been done, and a copy sent to you.
This doesn't mean your entire five year tenancy is negated/ "illegal" though, and you are highly unlikely to be able to claim any compensation.

Yeah, such good advice... if the OP wants to make herself homeless in the "difficult London rental market" 🤔(Word gets around about 'difficult' tenants...)

OP, I get that you're angry and annoyed, but seriously, you'll just be wasting time, money and raising your blood pressure with little prospect of any financial gain.

Put your energies into lobbying to get the gas/cooker sorted and building a good relationship with your new landlord who will hopefully be better.

What is your loss OP?

Some hot water and cooker use for a week? It’s not going to be much and it certainly won’t be any of your rent. It doesn’t work like that.

If Foxtons weren’t responsible for the checks because they weren’t a managing agent then they also haven’t done anything wrong. Your landlord has.

Finally the fact Foxtons is a listed company makes no difference to anything.

Lord Denning! So that was what year? Sounds like the law needs an update!