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Coercive control and Dmum as a carer for abusive husband - property rights

37 replies

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 18:58

Long post as didn't want to drip feed!

My DM (now in her mid 70's) married a man who has exhibited more and more bullying and coercive controlling behavior over the years. Let's call him E.

He is now quite ill with stage 4 cancer. She has looked after him for 2 years, endless hospital appointments, prescriptions, meals, intimate care etc. This was in the home she bought with our Ddad (who passed away when he was in his mid 30s).

Obviously E now has rights to the house legally through marriage. DM regrets marrying him but feels she has had a duty to look after him. Think of the most demanding toddler and double it, that's him 24 hrs a day.

He is now in hospital recovering from a broken leg (fell trying to get to bucket to pee in the night). It is likely he will die in the next 12 months and he wants to come home. DMum insistent that she has had enough and that he now needs nursing care (NHS have said they will pay due to high level needs). The abuse had got to the point where he recently threw a jug of pee all over her in a fit of anger. He also threw his walking frame down the room. We got social services involved at Christmas and they did talk to her but she finds it difficult to admit it is domestic abuse. They can see what's going on, she just says he is difficult and angry because of pain. She won't report anything to police and told SS she wasn't a safeguarding risk.

Now, crux of the matter - We know he has the right to come back home, but she also has the right to refuse to care for him (she is conflicted about this, despite the abuse and makes excuses for him). SS said she could just choose to walk out and then they would put an emergency care plan in place. She could stay with either me or my sibling. SS can see the situation for what it is and even said they would house her.

The legal question is: would she lose any rights to the house by walking out and refusing to be his carer any more? One of the care team told her it puts her at a disadvantage legally.

The house is her only asset, she's worried he might do something spiteful regarding it - or change his will and give everything of his away. She's not bothered about money but really the house was paid for by her since the 1970s. He's never contributed to the mortgage as far as I know. I know this doesn't mean much legally.

She wants to leave it to my sister and I. She said she would put up with caring for him if it meant keeping the house. We would rather she had a life but can see her POV.

What are her rights? Does it put her in a bad position if she was to leave the property and refuse to care for him. He's an absolute brute, very spiteful, very controlling and jealous. Doesn't care a fig for any of her needs. Shouts at her loudly in the ward (hospital want him out as he's rude and demanding - apparently one night he rang the bell over 30 times).

Caring for him means she can't attend to her own health needs (overdue operation), she can't eat or sleep properly. She's just had enough. At 76 and after so many years of living with domestic abuse, who can blame her.

I have asked her to speak to a solicitor but she keeps burying her head in the sand.

Any advice on her legal situation is most welcome. We just need some facts so she can make decisions. She wouldn't leave lightly, she still cares about him (despite everything he has done) but she has reached the end of her tether.

She's been such an independent woman, it's been horrible watching him diminish her. Just want her to have a few years where she gets to live her own life and not be a slave in her own home.

OP posts:
Cerialkiller · 25/04/2024 19:05

I am not a lawyer!!!

Is his name on the deeds? If so it's it joint tenants or tenants in common?

If his names isn't on the deeds then I don't think he technically owns it. If he devorced then yes, he could claim the joint marriage assets but not by dying. At least that's how I understand it.

BabaBarrio · 25/04/2024 19:08

would she lose any rights to the house by walking out and refusing to be his carer any more?

No, presuming she is on the house deeds as an owner of the house she would not lose any rights to the house.

However, because they are married, the council can include the value of the home in their calculations of his financial ability to pay for his care whether in home carer or in a care home. They may place a charge against the house, forcing her to sell it to pay the costs of his end of life care.

For specifics as to what would apply, I would contact Age.uk or MacMillian as you can disclose confidential financial information to them rather than on a public forum.

BloodyAdultDC · 25/04/2024 19:11

As above. Depends on if his name is on the deeds - I believe (IANAL) that the house is only classed as a shared asset (if the house is only in one name) on divorce, if it's just in her name ONLY then it is hers after his death. If it's in joint names then it depends how it was set up, and even then it might be that she would get his share anyway upon death.

Do you think he's made a will?

titchy · 25/04/2024 19:15

Why does she need to leave her house to make sure she isn't responsible for his care? She surely just tells the hospital she can no longer care for him (she could tell
them they are no longer in a relationship and he is not welcome in her house) and that discharge would be unsafe anywhere except to a care home.

fromaytobe · 25/04/2024 19:16

She needs to speak to a good solicitor as soon as possible.

She can also refuse to have him back at the house again, stating that she is both physically and mentally unable to act as his carer any longer. The NHS has already said that he qualifies for high-needs care, and so there won't be any care home fees to worry about.

He HAS to go into a care home, and her right to live in her own property would not be affected.

Social services cannot force her to look after him at home. Don't let them intimidate her into agreeing to it.

Do either of them have wills? (If she had one before she married him, then the marriage would have invalidated it and she needs to make a new one).

Whattodo2024 · 25/04/2024 19:19

Speak to AgeUk as they have lots of advisors on this. Agree on refusing to take him upon hospital discharge. And my mum is in a care home, they aren’t putting a charger against the house whilst my father is still in it. One of the good things about being married.

MooseBeTimeForSnow · 25/04/2024 19:23

She should seriously consider applying for Non Molestation and Occupation Orders

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:24

Everyone we have talked to from hospitals to SS have said he has the right to live/die at home. No one can make him go into nursing care as he has mental capacity.

If she lives there too she will end up caring for him. de facto. Even if they say they will send carers he will be shouting her every 2 minutes and though the night and hospital and meals and on an on we go.

So she is stuck.

He is on the deeds he made sure of that when they got married.

He does have a will.

OP posts:
titchy · 25/04/2024 19:33

Is he on the deeds though? If he's not then it isn't necessarily his home.

She should though be arguing that she will not care for him And that therefore discharge anywhere other than a care home will be unsafe.

titchy · 25/04/2024 19:33

Sorry missed your last post....

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:33

@titchy She can't refuse as it is legally his residence/house too. He is on the deeds. Hospital and SS say it is his decision. and that her only option is to go out the back door as he comes in the front.

Yes, I have said for her to argue unsafe discharge.

It will end up a fait complis - hospital will ring and say we are sending him home today. I can feel it coming. Then trauma bonding means she will be unable to leave him.

God its like a slow train crash.

OP posts:
Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:35

Even if she says she won't care she will get drawn in. Carers come 2 x day for half an hour. Guess who will be emptying the commode and peeling grapes when they aren't there? and doling out morphine. Sorry to be blunt but that is the practicality of her living with a very ill man who is also deeply controlling.

OP posts:
Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:37

@fromaytobe she has a will drawn up after marriage. SS just keep repeating he has a right to decide where to die. Nothing about her needs.

OP posts:
fromaytobe · 25/04/2024 19:38

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:24

Everyone we have talked to from hospitals to SS have said he has the right to live/die at home. No one can make him go into nursing care as he has mental capacity.

If she lives there too she will end up caring for him. de facto. Even if they say they will send carers he will be shouting her every 2 minutes and though the night and hospital and meals and on an on we go.

So she is stuck.

He is on the deeds he made sure of that when they got married.

He does have a will.

She can refuse to have anything to do with him if they send him home. She needs to tell them in no uncertain terms that she CANNOT care for him under any circumstances. Her mental health is just as important. Has she spoken to her own GP?

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:40

@titchy after he yelled at her in the hospital, she got the shaving kit out he had asked her to bring and did his beard. She is clearly in a relationship albeit an abusive one. Social worker came in at that point and it all looked OK, domestic bloody bliss.

OP posts:
Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:40

Did I mention she's her own worst enemy?

OP posts:
Summerhillsquare · 25/04/2024 19:43

I wonder if Rights of Women might be able to help, they are specialist lawyers.

Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:43

@fromaytobe I don't think that is how it will work though, when he gets his feet back under the table. She's not strong enough.

Her GP is also his GP. I think she was away a few weeks will need to check. She parrots the same message - he can choose to die at home if he wants to.

No-one is advocating for her.

OP posts:
Alltheyearround · 25/04/2024 19:44

GP is a bit of a chocolate teapot, nice, helpful, caring but I can't see that she will be helping mum with this even 1%.

OP posts:
dragonscannotswim · 25/04/2024 19:48

She has to advocate for herself.

She should contact Age UK and CAB for advice. It's a ridiculous situation, but they are married, so...

JanglyBeads · 25/04/2024 19:52

Women's Aid are always the best advisors on anything involving DA. You could ring them for advice OP, honestly. Or email them with what you've written here.

TheCultureHusks · 25/04/2024 19:53

What does his will say?

And are they joint tenants or tenants in common? I believe I’m that if it’s the usual version of joint ownership he can’t leave his ‘half’ of the house to anyone else out of spite, she’ll inherit it automatically.

titchy · 25/04/2024 19:57

TheCultureHusks · 25/04/2024 19:53

What does his will say?

And are they joint tenants or tenants in common? I believe I’m that if it’s the usual version of joint ownership he can’t leave his ‘half’ of the house to anyone else out of spite, she’ll inherit it automatically.

He could if he were really spiteful sever the tenancy, only one tenant needs to agree. She/you should check land registry (I believe you can set up an alert to be notified of any changes) to make sure it is still joint tenants assuming it is.

fromaytobe · 25/04/2024 20:13

dragonscannotswim · 25/04/2024 19:48

She has to advocate for herself.

She should contact Age UK and CAB for advice. It's a ridiculous situation, but they are married, so...

They might be married, but that doesn't mean she is legally obliged to be his carer.

She's obviously not able to advocate for herself anyway. She's too browbeaten after years of his controlling abuse of her.

blacksax · 25/04/2024 20:16

My distant relative found herself in a similar situation - caring for the bastard who had abused her all their married life. The irony of it all was that she cared for him 24/7, ignored her own health, and she died first. We are all convinced that she worked herself into an early grave.

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