Land Registry - courtyard development issues.

[AmalaJae]

We are a group of seven house centred around a shared drive and central courtyard. Built 2000.

All house deeds state in the covenants that there is agreed full and free access at all times across the shared drive way and central courtyard area.

Except one property has a ‘red outline’ on the plan, in the centre of the courtyard which the owners have taken to mean that this is owned by them and means they can park two cars, across the centre of the courtyard.

This blocks access, prevents other residents turning and prevents access by other vehicles including emergency services. ( ambulance prevented from accessing a child)

Land registry have suggested I seek legal advice around the inaccuracy in the deeds for the other house and the inconsistency between the houses in the development.

Is that correct?
Surely, I can't legally change someone else’s deeds?

I'm confused, should I be expecting more from Land Registry?

Thanks.

The land registry are saying you need to seek proper legal advice regarding this issue, presumably because there may be some wording in someone’s deeds which needs interpretation/ affects everyone’s access. They aren’t saying you can change someone else’s deeds.

what happens next really does depend on what a solicitor advises you all to do going forward. It probably won’t be cheap either, so it might be best to get the affected property owners together and have an informal discussion as to how this could be remedied, or if you do go to a solicitor, how costs might be dispersed amongst you all. Or you could see if you own house insurance has any legal cover and if they could help advise - they might as it is affecting you ability to obtain vehicular access to your own property.

Thank you.

there may be some wording in someone’s deeds which needs interpretation/ affects everyone’s access. They aren’t saying you can change someone else’s deeds.

Yes, I am beginning to wonder if the ‘free and full access’ to the shared courtyard takes precedence over the drawn plan with the added red block over the shared area only meaning that this is part of the property concerned. Maybe the owner has interpreted it as their parking spaces when nowhere in the deeds does it mention parking.

All very confusing. I've known what my deeds say, since I bought in 2002. There has never been any issues until the owner has let the house, as a staff house to a hotel. The three bed house, now has four occupants, each with a car. The owner ( and hotel) insist that the cars can be parked in the middle of the shared courtyard, discounting the covenants in the deeds.

Hence really needing the services of a solicitor as the land registry have advised.

It sounds as if the hotel/owner of the problematic house is unlikely to listen to reason, but (depending on what a solicitor advises) they may listen to a solicitor representing with her you as an individual or you as a group of invested/concerned/affected home owners. Talk to your neighbours, talk to a solicitor and hopefully they will suggest a course of action. This might be mediation or a letter - it would depend on what the solicitor advises. This is a complicated issue.

I think we need a diagram.

Thank you.

I was hoping that this could be resolved without a legal bill. Seems very unjust that I need to pay for legal help, to remedy something that someone else is choosing to disregard. I follow the covenant and never block the shared area.

I have tried liaising with the letting agent and the hotel, but they have disregarded the narrative in all of our deeds, including the property they rent, about ‘ free access’ and sent me the plan of the red outline, showing the ‘parking’. Of course, the red outline doesn't show on my deeds as it isn't my house.

In addition, there is a clause in all deeds regarding all houses only being occupied by one related family. I've not wanted to address this as I know the house is valuable in providing rented accommodation to hospitality staff.

I had hoped the Land Registry department would have ensured that the deeds issued are correct.

Well not everyone is reasonable! Sad but true. The clause regarding only one related occupier family may well be a covenant. These are tricky and you will need legal advice as to wether that’s enforceable along with advice regarding the parking situation. Unfortunately shared spaces are never a good idea regarding property ownership. (That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it!)

Speak to your affected neighbours, speak to a solicitor and get a plan in place moving forward. Be aware that your other affected neighbours may well leave you to sort it out alone if you let them! Because if you do get it sorted for yourself, that will also sort the issue by default for themselves at no cost or effort to them. So if you do agree to share costs etc get it all in writing.

Land registry don’t guarantee that boundary’s etc are correct they only give an indication of general boundaries and certainly won’t be involved in cross referencing any wording of clauses such as shared ownership of portions of land. This isn’t a land registry issue or concern - it’s the concern of your conveyancer solicitors when you buy a property.

We have a similar sort of set up and I have met with similar issues.

One of the houses in our courtyard has the red line around all the car park and paved areas. I want to do something about the standing water outside my home but am reluctant to do anything (drains, move paving) in case it comes back to bite me.

Red line neighbour KNOWS she has the home that has something to do with the shared area. She is the third owner since I've been in my own home. The first one got us all together to contribute towards new gravel for the car park, the second one (like yours) lorded it over the place telling their immediate neighbour they had 2 car parking spots. They don't. Each house has one and there are a number of visitor spots. The current one is playing dumb and just shrugged. The others don't really want to get involved (a few are rented).

Essentially if I want to find out exactly what's what I need to engage a solicitor, who will write to Red line neighbour instructing her to clarify things. This will cost her money as she will likely need to get a solicitor. I imagine that when she was sold the house, someone wasn't entirely transparent about the responsibility that came with it.

I believe it's a cheap way for councils not to have responsibility.

It's all very well say 'get a solicitor', but they are very expensive and it stings when you know someone else can more easily get the info.
To be clear, I am not asking Red line neighbour to pay for any works outside my home, I just want to know that I can do it. I had a thread on here ages ago about it actually.

Property lawyer here. The land registry is not going to provide legal advice - their job is to hold deeds and guarantee ownership. They won't engage with any queries about the nature of easements, unfortunately.

The plan is less important than the actual terms of the document creating the 'right' for the hotel. The hotel should have sent this to you with the plan. If not; the land registry will hold a copy. If this grants a right to park in the red outlined spaces and it is registered against the title to the courtyard, then they probably have the right and there is not much you can do.

The option would then be to negotiate for the spaces to be moved. You might find it helpful to speak to them on the basis of emergency access and health and safety, complain to the council etc.

Unfortunately it is common to have inconsistencies about common parts on estates - which may be the original lawyers fault!

Thanks so much.

TBF the hotel are only following the information given to them by the letting agent/landlord, which is that there's outline is parking for two cars. They will not address despite photos shared of a stuck ambulance.

My deeds are all good and align with my property. I checked when I bought and know what I was expecting. We abide by them, as do all other neighbours.

The ‘grey’ area seems to be on the other property, the deed ‘narrative’ ( free and full access over the shared area) is aligned across all of the deeds, so nothing to worry about at the time of my purchase.

As I've worked through this, with the above help, my thoughts are:

Does the narrative ( free and full access) take precedent over the red outline on the plan
Is the red outline ‘ownership’, so a stretch of land attached to each property,rather than parking bays
What are the arrangements for parking? Where would parking be mentioned and how would anyone know what rights they have bought to parking ( not in my deeds as I have my own drive)

Really frustrating!

You need to get hold of a copy of the deeds for the house that is claiming the red area and see what those deeds actually refer to in writing.
You should be able to download a copy of those deeds from the Land Registry for a couple of quid.

I have those from LR. The information shared above is from the deeds of the other house.

The deeds say ‘free and full access across the shared area’ ( cross hatched on the plan) but the red outlined area is in front of the other house’s garage, full length and over the crosshatched shared area.

There is no mention of parking in the deeds. I don't know if the ‘full and free access’ for everyone, takes precedent over the red outline and whether the owners have assumed the red outline is their parking and ignored the ‘free and full access’ for us all.

What reference do the Deeds make to the red outlined area? Is there any indication as to why it has been annotated on the plan in that way?

It sounds as if the red outlines area is owned by the one property, BUT there is access allowed freely to other properties to cross that area. So it cannot be blocked by a parked vehicle or a shed or a skip for instance.

You’ve hinted that the property owners are refusing to discuss this amicably. (Apologies if I’m wrong). So a solicitor would still be your best next course of action 1) for advice and to clarify things are as they appear to be interpreted by everyone involved 2) if indeed everyone does have access across this disputed land, then they could write a letter outlining the rights of others across the disputed land.
Yes it will cost you, but you may get legal help tied in with building insurance. Also don’t forget this unresolved issue could impact on any future chance of selling - parking and being blocked in or out of a driveway tends to out of prospective purchasers. (You may also need to disclose this issue anyway with any future buyers. So if it can be resolved now it would be better.)

The red line means ownership.
Red always means ownership!

Someone has to own the land but if all other properties have access and use rights the house with the red line( ie owners) can’t block your access.

So, no they can’t park there.

I would get the LR plan of their property
£3 off landregistry website.

As an aside whatever you buy into cannot be removed by another purchaser of other land. If you have free and full access to the land it cannot be blocked by another user or anyone that tries to claim ownership. You only lose this right if you chose to ie…someone requests it from you and you agree and you all change your deeds. You didn’t agree to any changes after purchase so you have the rights you paid for at the point of purchase.

The people parking on the land are doing so illegally and blocking your rights. You may have to take this to court but in these cases you can claim legal expenses as well.

Do you have legal cover with your house insurance?

This is all really interesting and helpful.

The more I read, the more I do think that the owners have taken the red outline to mean that is their parking.

The owner isn't in touch directly. The hotel ( who are the tenant) have insisted their staff have the right to park on the red outline, despite meeting with us and seeing my deeds regarding ‘full and free access’. We have another visitor parking area, used by residents. The hotel have insisted that none of the residents use this either. This issue has been going on for months and months. This morning three cars parked.

I am confused now though about how the owner knows what the parking is? How does she know what she has bought when there isn't any mention of car parking? Where should this be stipulated?

That is the next thing I need to check. So frustrating that this is on me to correct them.

Her car parking etc won’t be stipulated anywhere if these are old properties. New housing developments do.

The hotel owner hasn’t got a clue, she’s trying it on.

This is a development built in 2000.

In which case if they have sole use of an area to park that will be on their land registry plan
If they haven’t shown you you can see it on Gov website Landregistry. Costs £3 to see / get a copy.

However that should also be highlighted on your land registry plans as an area you don’t have access to. Which doesn’t seem the case.

I think I've already accessed the plan, but will go back and look.

So…if I seek legal advice, what happens?
I take it the first step is the solicitor will look over all documents and advise me on rights, parking etc. as taken from the deeds

If it is the case that the landlord/tenants are not following the agreed covenants, the solicitor writes to them? Is that right?

Then what…

If they begin to use the shared area correctly…great, problem sorted, but what if they don't? Then what?

Yes that’s right although tbh.
If it’s not on your plans and no mention of their rights to a portion of the land to park on
and there’s nothing on there’s, ) you might need to check the deeds on theirs as well just to explain the colours )
Then you dont need a solicitor to tell you what you already know.

So I would ( this is what our solicitor advised )
Firstly
Write to them yourself sending a copy of your deeds and plan and explain they can’t park their as it is a contravention of your legal access / use rights.
Then wait
See if they stop
See if they respond
If after a month nothing happens write again explaining the same again and that you may have to consult a solicitor
Then wait
See if they stop
See if they respond

If they respond verbally only you should confirm their verbal conversation to them in writing with dates

Emails are OK legally, texts not so much.

Meanwhile get evidence they are parking there. A ring doorbell if it can pick up on them parking or just take photos if it doesn’t but you’ll need to show more than a 5minute stop/ park or they’ll claim they are just using the spot to load and unload.

If they do nothing then yes, talk to a solicitor and make sure the letter they write to them is accurate. Check it before it’s sent and ask for changes if it’s not correct or you want more said. The solicitor will ask them to stop and give them a deadline to do so.

If they ignore all of that then you need to take the matter to court.

We ve had a similar situation although ours was to do with blocking access and signs and all sorts.

That is all so helpful, thank you.

I do have photos ( including a ‘stuck’ ambulance), photos of time 6 cars parked, aggressive hotel staff when asked to move and a meeting with the ‘property’ manager from the hotel.
Hotel still insists their staff have the right to park on the red outlined area. GRRRR.