How much does a solicitor make?

[PurpleBugz]

Any education solicitors about?

I currently am taking LA to tribunal over my sons lack of education provision. I have a legal aid solicitor. She copies and pasted my words I to the documents most of the time. Twice I've corrected her on things as I know from other parents a certain thing is possible and which case law to quote. Twice she hasn't attended important meeting with the LA and she can't represent me on the actual day at tribunal as legal aid doesn't cover this- so I've done it myself. I'm not complaining as she is proof reading my work at least and I've had independent reports funded I could never have afforded otherwise.

I think once this hell is over I would love to be a solicitor. I understand everything I read I think I'm capable. I would do legal aid cases only as I don't think I could happily do the court part and keep my cool at how badly failed so many of these kids are. I want to help families like mine who can't afford the help otherwise. How much does a solicitor in education law doing legal aid make? How flexible is the job? Can you be part time? Obviously important meetings must be attended but other than that does the job fit around a family? How do you train? Could it be done distance learning? I'm a single mum with a high needs disabled child who will need me to be able to collect him on bad days etc so maybe I can't ever work but I really want to.

It'll take you yyyyears to recoup what you spent/lost training

Is it not like a degree where you get a student loan and only pay back once you make a certain amount? I've been on universal credit for a couple years now and before that only ever worked low paying jobs in childcare and early education. I don't mind being poor I'm used to it 😂 I just want to feel good about myself doing something worthwhile

if you're in england: www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor
do you have a degree in something else already?

It will take you years to qualify and a lot of hard work..yould need a law degree and one year of Law School or if your degree isn't in law then your degree and two years of Law School. Then 2 years of on the job training before you qualify with no guarantee of a job as a solictor afterwards. You could look at different jobs/routes in the law though other than solicitor, that don't need that sort of lengthy study time though if you can't commit to the time and expense if you think yould enjoy it and be good at it..sounds like you have the motivation!

Yes I have a 2:1 in psychology

You won't get paid much for that sort of work. To be blunt that's probably why your solicitor has made mistakes- because she will be on the lower end of quality of solicitor. I don't actually know how much you would make in that specific field but probably 30k or similar. The traditional route to being a solicitor is a training contract after an LPC (1 year training course) and a conversion course if you haven't got a law degree. It's possible to go down the non- traditional qualification route now which would allow you to work and qualify at the same time. It's a long road but not impossible. You could look into being a paralegal or similar.

You could go in as a paralegal or legal executive as alternatives.

@PurpleBugz - err, no. It is like a degree, but worse.

There's some SQE exam route now, but back in my day it was, for your Psych degree purposes:

1. GDL (£10k). 9-12 months
2. LPC (6 months accelerated if sponsored by a law firm ie you had a training contract, or 9-12 if not), probs another £10k.
3. 2 year training contract. At a City firm maybe 40-50k now on average, minimum £18k if in the sticks

To get a training contract you must be EXCELLENT. A 2:1 is bog standard.

And I agree with PP, after all this, you'll at best be earning c 30k.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The 10ks are tuition costs.

You won't have to pay the tuition if you have a TC.

The 40-50k figure is a trainee salary. However, no City firm does education law, so you're looking more down at the 18k pa end

Thanks everyone lots to think about here. Looking at the training it's going to cover lots of areas I'm not keen to work in so maybe I will do the paralegal route. I could do law with the OU affordably but again it's broad and I only really want to work in education. I've found a couple of assistant jobs locally too so maybe once I've got my son a school place I will get a job as an assistant and see where that takes me.

I wouldn't mind a low wage. My son is disabled and UC don't expect me to work as I care for him so I have that financial safety net. But that's because he needs a lot of care I couldn't do more than part time work/study so I'm not going to be appealing to employers 😔

Law is very difficult with caring commitments. It’s not a family friendly profession. Part time training contracts aren’t really a thing. The LPC is hell on earth, even part time.

i don’t want to put you off! I retrained in law and regret it.

Have you considered working in advocacy in the voluntary sector?

Thanks it's others experience I'm looking to hear.

I don't want to be an advocate. They are not regulated and imo the SEND education ones are often taking vulnerable families money without real knowledge to support. They often give bad advice etc. I don't want to be associated with them

Look at the SQE route. If you can get a job doing legal work - say as a paralegal in an organisation - there's a way through to qualifying. You still do exams each of the two years but you're earning as well so it's less risky.

https://www.sra.org.uk/become-solicitor/sqe/

Being a solicitor is one of the least family friendly jobs you can find. I'd think extremely carefully. It will cost you a lot of money and there is no guarantee of work at the end of it and certainly not on very flexible terms.

Have you looked at working for the council? Eg, a job in SEN EHCP provision?
This one pays 40k.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=education+council+jobs+ehcp&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=tldetail&htidocid=olhTv5mb7hy8bMDyAAAAAA%3D%3D&htiq=education%20council%20jobs%20ehcp&htivrt=jobs

I wouldn’t touch one of those jobs with a barge pole if the op’s aim is to help disabled children. I think a lot of caseworkers perhaps go into the job thinking they are going to be helping children but really it’s a job where you have to try and give least provision as possible and try and save as much money as possible regardless of whether the child ends up being stuck at home without any education at all whilst they wait for tribunal, or forced into an unsuitable school that can clearly not meet needs in everyone’s view expect the la’s

Sounds like a great idea to me, don't let the doubters hold you back.

I retrained as a solicitor starting as a mum to two kids under 2 years old. I did the degree (compulsory in Australia) three years full time, and worked 3-4 days a week the whole way through, and also had a third kid. It was hard and fundamentally changed me- I am now very disciplined and have enormous drive and capacity for hard work, which I didn't at the start.

I've now been a solicitor for two years in the legal assistance space, in a litigation team against government institutions, so pretty much exactly where you want to be. We do a LOT more work than your solicitor, I wonder if she's doing stuff behind the scenes.

Every day I am so pleased I re-trained. It's a brilliant job and so great using your brain so strategically as your day job.

The money is not great; significantly worse than you think it will be, especially in the legal assistance space. But your job (unless you work for a charity) is very secure- there's always legal work there.

I studied with a bunch of single mums, including single mums of kids with disabilities, who got into it for similar reasons as you. They're fabulous solicitors now. I say go for it!!!

I would echo the comments about the cost of training, the likelihood of getting a job at the end, the hours and the pay for legal aid work.

The other thing is that education work is pretty niche, not many firms have full departments of multiple education lawyers. Lots of education lawyers will only be doing education for part of the time and will be doing other stuff the rest of the time. Many education cases are done by solicitors who take maybe one education case a year.

For every case where you are fighting for SEN provision you will get another where a parent can't accept that their child has misbehaved and needs to be sanctioned. You can't pick the cases that feel deserving to you.

I think you need to think very seriously about what being a solicitor is, the prospects of getting the career you want and the cost in terms of time and money.

She would be unlikely to get the job in Education either. Usually some broad experience is needed within SEN and the LA.

@PurpleBugz You possibly need to understand that solicitors must have a general education in law. Either via GDL or Law degree. You have no option to study one tiny aspect of law that interests you. You don’t make money out of Legal Aid so many solicitors and barristers avoid it as they need to pay their bills. Few just choose legal aid work as a result.

I think you might look at working for any charity or advice centre that supports parents but you will find these jobs are difficult to come by and often people have years of experience in the field. You might need to start in a job you don’t really like to get broader experience in this field and not just personal expertise which is narrow.

It’s not litigation the op poster is interested in though based on her op although she could do this instead perhaps. It’s education law. Basically this is situations where for example there is a disabled child and the local authority due to budgets say they will be fine in a mainstream school without any additional support, the school and the parent know they won’t so the parent has to go to tribunal to fight for that support. Op got legal aid due to her circumstances but legal aid is very few and far between now and most families have to self fund. There are no costs awarded even if you win. So it’s difficult for solicitors that operate in this area as they are having to charge a lot of money to sometimes highly vulnerable families who can’t really afford it, it’s definately not an area you’d go into for the money

That's a great point, thanks @Morph22010 :)

I guess then it comes down to, would OP be interested in other legal work than this very specific job? The thing she's described as finding interesting about it (preparing court documents, assisting vulnerable children) could be applicable to a huge swathe of legal work.

OP sounds like Morph knows more than me about that kind of role in your jurisdiction. I think you have the right idea to think about looking into a paralegal role- it might scratch the itch, or it might confirm the dream!

I find what @supercalafragilisticexpealidocious has said (You won't get paid much for that sort of work. To be blunt that's probably why your solicitor has made mistakes- because she will be on the lower end of quality of solicitor...)

both insulting and wrong.

Lots of legal aid solicitors are brilliant and have CHOSEN to go into legal aid work not because they couldn’t get a better paying job (I regularly get headhunted by corporate/commercial firms on the other side) but because they (we) genuinely want to do some good. I am senior now and often involved in recruiting. The calibre of applications I get is exceptional (haven’t employed someone with less than a first and an excellent CV for some time.)

Not everyone cares about money, and a person’s abilities cannot be judged by income alone. I can’t imagine being a lawyer just for the sake of being a lawyer and helping rich people get richer or helping corporations against other corporations. It would feel like a totally empty life to me.

What I will say, OP, is that you have to think very carefully about whether you can afford to do it. The pay is terrible given the hours worked and the debt accrued to get here. I believe the average is around £33k. Legal aid firms can’t afford to cover law school in the way that corporate firms do for trainees so you will have huge debts to be paid from that income. Legal aid is paid so poorly by the govt that we have to take on many more cases than we used to, just to keep going. So caseloads are high. It’s not abnormal to work 60 hours a week. More if coming up to trial.

It is not a very family friendly profession, sadly. The courts don’t care if you have childcare issues - a deadline is a deadline and that means that you have to do the work regardless of other family commitments. Yes some places allow for part time work, but that’s less money and you still have to meet the deadlines, whenever they may be.

Some have mentioned SQE. Having seen how poor the SQE system/teaching is, we don’t take anyone on who hasn’t done at least a GDL (or whatever it is called these days!) and preferably a full 3 year law degree. If a candidate is exceptional, we will sometimes take a paralegal on without the LPC.

I say all this so you are realistic about this if you want to go into it. To counter the negativity I will say that I absolutely love my job. It’s intellectually stimulating and the feeling of having helped someone achieve an important, often life changing or even life saving outcome, is fantastic.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Yes, my experience echoes that of @StrawberryEater. It's tough, poorly paid, but very rewarding.

Yeah as @Morph22010 says these jobs don't actually help people its gatekeep if funds and the opposite of what I would find rewarding