Power of attorney - spouse influencing dementia sufferer

[TruffleSnuffle]

At what point in the decline of someone's mental capacity should you start implementing a power of attorney?

Parent diagnosed with Vascular Dementia three years ago. Spouse and two children have power of attorney. Spouse is not the children's parent.

Parent's memory and ability to understand things has deteriorated a lot. They were previously very shrewd when it came to financial matters.

I recently agreed to help parent sort out some tax matters and discovered that in a meeting with a bank manager, it was suggested that a couple of bank accounts (£50,000 in total) were put in joint names to make use of spouse's allowances. Parent would never had done his if they had realised that it would mean that this cash would automatically go to spouse (as joint holder) rather than to their own children via their will. Spouse is adequately provided for in the will. When this was queried with the spouse, they snapped that the kids would get plenty anyway!

Since their mental capacity has declined, parent relies on spouse to tell them what to do. They both have another meeting with the bank in a couple of weeks to discuss finances. I am concerned that parent will do whatever spouse suggests without fully understanding the consequences.

What can we do? The children have a good relationship with the wife and want to tread carefully, but equally, don't want them effectively siphoning off the parent's cash.

They both have another meeting with the bank in a couple of weeks to discuss finances.

Who has requested this meeting? What is it for exactly? Can you ask your parent if you can be present too?

Does anyone have POA?

Honestly of they are caring for your parent- they are saving you £6k a month on your inheritance. Would you prefer that your parent went into a home?

What do the wills say?

Do you have joint decisions, spouse and children… You have a problem as all 3 of you have power of attorney and the spouse can move money.

This seems like you do not want your inheritance to go down.

If they are caring they are saving you money, my parents care home fees were £1850 per week.

I believe it was the bank who suggested that come in for a review. Probably to look at ISA allowances etc. I would have suggested I go along but I am away on holiday then. I'd like to ask them to postpone or suggest my sibling goes along but don't want spouse to think I'm suggesting they can't be trusted.

This.

Has the POA been registered and are the executors to make decisions together or separately? Is anyone using the POA at the moment to make decisions in behalf of your mother?

It’s a difficult one because the spouse has joint POA with you and your sibling.

Parent would never had done his if they had realised that it would mean that this cash would automatically go to spouse (as joint holder) rather than to their own children via their will.

Did you explain to your parent that this is what will happen, once you found out? Are they able to understand that now it’s been explained to them?

Just to be clear, the issue is that we believe the parent has reached the point where they are not able to comprehend the impact of these financial decisions. We don't intend objecting to the spouse being made a joint holder of the account, more that it is a strong indication that our parent's mental capacity has declined and we are worried about the pair of them being talked into things that they don't fully understand.

Spouse gets a cash lump sum in the will and a life interest in the house.

Then I would implement the POA and insist that the meeting is rearranged to when you can attend, or your sibling attends.

Make sure that she is claiming attendance allowance- the form is along but the threshold is low £60 a week odd basic and then £100 higher rate.

I would ask the gp or nurse to carry out a formal capacity assessment, check on the pia form if poa is to be used on registration or when no capacity and check if there are 3 attorneys to make decision jointly.

@TruffleSnuffle sadly I have learned when it comes to the elderly losing capacity it provides an opportunity for some relatives or people they are close to, to start to behaving in a very disappointing way as for some money really does corrupt.

Your posts have a number of red flags. ISAs can only be in one persons name. Having one joint account makes sense as it can be a pragmatic solution. Suddenly opening several joint accounts gives the other party access to large amounts of cash. I have known a spouse do this then transfer the money to an account in their sole name.

My advice is to invoke the LPoA asap, whilst you are waiting for this to go through contact the bank and put in writing your concerns. If your sister can go to the meeting she should do.

I would also advise you sign up for the Land Registry property alert https://www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert and get an up to date copy of the Land Register.

I suspect you will be accused of “not trusting the spouse” your response is “my Dad made me a joint LPoA and I am carrying out his wishes. What is far more interesting is why you do not want his daughters and joint LPoAs to be involved.”

It depends how the POA was set up, but when I wanted to invoke my mother's financial POA, she had to agree to it. I typed a letter, she signed it and I sent it to the solicitor who released copies of the POA to me.

If the spouse is one of the attorneys, they will continue making decisions on the part of your parent in any case. Is it set up as 'jointly' (i.e. all attorneys have to agree on every decision) or 'jointly and severally' (any one of you can make a decision).

As someone mentioned above, bear in mind that by looking after your parent, the spouse is saving £5k+ a month in care home fees.

I just have a copy of the LPA I can use. It came immediately the LPA was set up. No more legal people involved. Probably ridiculous to name three people! One or two is normal. There should be agreement on what’s in joint accounts and what’s not. If the LPA has to be used no meeting with a bank is going to decide anything until the LPA is registered with them.

Also what does the LPA say about acting jointly or severally? What about the big decisions such as house sale? Do all three have to agree to everything or can spouse act alone with LPA in place?