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Stopping contact due to safe-guarding concerns and social workers around? (Content warning added by MNHQ)

13 replies

Peacecomesfromwithin · 15/03/2024 07:18

Hi,

I didn’t know where to post this. Really I want legal advice re breaking court orders and social services advice surrounding procedures.

I am in the family courts awaiting fact finding for domestic abuse, physical abuse of me (and the children) and daughter sexual abuse allegations due to youngest child’s many disclosures of sexual abuse by her father which were prompted initially by her having an extremely sore vagina. Social services are as they put it ‘unwilling to label Exhb as a peodophile’ and seem to require youngest child to repeat disclosures recorded by teachers (and me) for them to be ‘substantiated’. Police investigated but couldn’t do an ABE because she wouldn’t speak to them. I with held contact but SS wrote a report full of inaccuracies stating that unsupervised contact was safe so Judge ordered supervised with an ISW sundays for 4 weeks following into unsupervised. Since then the children have made allegations of physical harm in front of ISW who recorded this, nothing came of it, contact apparently still safe as this was historic.

Exhb is having unsupervised contact on a sunday 10am - 6.15pm during which time he is alone with them in his house. The children have told me that on several occaisions youngest has fallen asleep in his bed during contact. Last week during a drawing and talking therapy session with a teacher she drew a picture of a bed with her and daddy in it (she pointed it out) and said ‘daddy touched me on the foo-foo’ (which we know is her name for vagina). School alerted social services who went into the school and attempted to make her say it again (they didn’t use the drawing as a talking point as I had suggested). As she did not say anything directly to them they are reluctant to intervene again and the job falls to me to go against the order and safe-guard. She had previously told my sister that daddy hurt her on the vagina with his ‘willy-gilly, leggy-leg, knee knee’ and preciously stated to me in a video recorded disclosure that daddy’s ’killing part’ (later determined as willy through pointing) ‘knifed her in the leg’ (which she demonstrated using a sawing motion of her hand) and stated that she touched her fathers willy. All of this evidence was made available to every single person in the system and contact has still been ordered.

After this last disclosure I have asked via my solicitor to ask Exhb if a member of his family can supervise the contact so I don’t have to break the orders while we wait the fact finding. Suprise suprise he will not agree. I have had enough of nobody being prepared to safe guard my children, I cannot understand why a child drawing a bed with her and daddy in it and stating to a teacher that ‘daddy touched me on the foo-foo’ does not raise extreme safe-guarding concerns given her previous history of disclosure??

My solicitor is advising me to keep quiet, not break the court order obey the rules, be meak and mild and send my children like lambs to the slaughter because she is terrified of me being charged for contempt of court. I need someone in my corner, SS won’t do it they tell me to use PR to withold contact ergo I have to break an order a Judge happily made for unsupervised contact with this man.

Has the world gone mad?? I feel like I am being gaslit by the system? Am I breaking the court order if I state I will not hand children over for contact without a member of his family there? Contact is still happening?

Any advice welcome I am so despondent and so broken trying to keep my children safe.

OP posts:
bunglesmum12 · 15/03/2024 07:29

This is shocking. I’m so sorry this is happening to you. I can’t give any advice sorry. I wouldn’t send my children and I can see you would have to break court order to do so. Can you write directly to the court immediately, explain what you have just written above and with hold contact until you hear back from the court?

bunglesmum12 · 15/03/2024 07:32

Adding this to my previous post…. Contact nspcc and Cafcass this morning. Surely they must know that is too much for a child to make up. Nspcc will listen to you.

Pottingup · 15/03/2024 07:40

Have you reported the latest disclosures to the police as well? Has the matter been before the court since the latest disclosure? I’m a family solicitor and in these circumstances wouldn’t want you to send a child for unsupervised contact until there’s been a fact finding hearing. If there’s been new information since the last hearing then your solicitor should refer the matter back to court to vary the order and you shouldn’t send them for unsupervised contact in the meantime.
If ss are advising you to withhold contact then the Judge isn’t going to find you in contempt for following this advice- especially if the matter is being referred back to vary the order.

saveforthat · 15/03/2024 07:45

This sounds awful, so sorry you are going through this. I know you shouldn't have to but could the children be "ill" on his contact days so they can't go?

daffodilandtulip · 15/03/2024 07:58

My DC had physical marks following abuse (not sexual) at court ordered contact. Social services and the police told me to withhold contact. I nearly lost the children as a result of breaking the order, and was told that I was the abusive one for making a child report their father to the police.

So tread very carefully and get your solicitor to contact the court first. Get written proof of the agencies telling you to stop contact. PP advised contacting NSPCC, we did this also and were told to stop trying to get so many people involved in stopping contact.

Dreamingofthishouse · 15/03/2024 08:00

ring police and nspcc each and every time something is disclosed. Sexual abuse is a police and ss matter not just ss.

WarningOfGails · 15/03/2024 08:02

How is your relationship with his family? Could you tell a member and ask them to be present?

kkneat · 15/03/2024 08:13

Sorry to hear this. How old is your daughter? Please teach her the correct biological names for her body parts otherwise he can argue or his legal team can that it is not known what is meant by foo foo etc. I’m a senior social worker & we would take the disclosure very seriously regardless of which professional she told. We also have a lot of resources we use with children to ascertain information. Not sure why your solicitor is telling you to stay quiet this all sounds bizarre. Hope it gets sorted

Peacecomesfromwithin · 15/03/2024 13:44

Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for all of your replies I have found them very helpful. I had been told to submit any new information by email to the detectives in charge, but I phoned the social worker today and she said she thinks he’s left which is why nothing has happened. I immediately reported this last incident via the police website and had a call back within the hour. The policewoman said they might want to come out again to talk to my daughter so that’s something and the social worker has agreed reluctantly to go in again and have another try. I asked for the guidelines on how sexual abuse it substantiated / what the threshold is because I feel she must have met this by now collectively she’s said a great deal about things. To the person who asked me her age she’s only four. She’s very articulate and capable the social worker said to her before and she has previously used the word vagina in a disclosure to my sister I just think she reverts to more baby speak as it’s hard to talk about.

My solicitor is desperately trying to get exhb to agree to his family monitoring the contact but he is refusing. I’m hopeful he might change his mind now the police have got back involved. This is a harrowing horrifying experience, thank you so much to everyone who took the time to reach out and offer support. The family court system doesn’t seem at all geared to protect victims even in 2024!!!

OP posts:
Peacecomesfromwithin · 15/03/2024 17:57

daffodilandtulip · 15/03/2024 07:58

My DC had physical marks following abuse (not sexual) at court ordered contact. Social services and the police told me to withhold contact. I nearly lost the children as a result of breaking the order, and was told that I was the abusive one for making a child report their father to the police.

So tread very carefully and get your solicitor to contact the court first. Get written proof of the agencies telling you to stop contact. PP advised contacting NSPCC, we did this also and were told to stop trying to get so many people involved in stopping contact.

When was this daffodil? This is horrific and why so many women are straight-jacketed by the family court system, you are criticised if you don’t act but equally criticised if you do? if you look too weak and cry too much you are labelled hysterical, if you appear to strong and forthright you must have provoked abuse. In the normal world a man cannot go up to a woman and touch her vagina, in the world of the family courts a 4 year old can tell a teacher her daddy touched her vagina in a bed and it isn’t taken seriously? Before all of this I would have thought anything like this would trigger immediate suspension of contact and extreme caution surrounding children being left alone, but no, you have to send your kids like lambs to the slaughter. They have also disclosed physical assault by him, and have witnessed him strangling me, and seeing me being hit in the face which I have evidence of and showed the social worker and family court prior to contact being ordered. I do not know what the world has come to. Escape abuse they say, it’s better for the kids they say! but what they are actually doing is removing the protective factor and sending the children on their own into the lions den. My son has tried to run away for christs sake!! Both older children have terrible anxiety, son has been referred for child psychology, daughter to CAHMS but they are not victims and contact is safe!! The system is not fit for purpose.

OP posts:
daffodilandtulip · 15/03/2024 18:43

It was 2017. I was also assaulted during contact handovers, DD tried to run away, and DS was referred to CAMHS. But yeah, you still have to send them because the judge said 😡

Peacecomesfromwithin · 15/03/2024 22:38

daffodilandtulip · 15/03/2024 18:43

It was 2017. I was also assaulted during contact handovers, DD tried to run away, and DS was referred to CAMHS. But yeah, you still have to send them because the judge said 😡

It’s a truly awful and shocking situation for any mother to be put in 😞 i’m so sorry to hear this happened to you I hope you are all doing ok now xx

OP posts:
Mumstheword37 · 16/03/2024 00:06

Jesus Christ OP this is absolutely fucking horrendous for you and your children and my heart goes out to you. My advice would be to absolutely stop contact. Me and ex went to court over access as he was drinking…long story short we eventually got a court order and he was allowed to have the lm unsupervised at his house. Court order agreed Friday. Following monday he came to collect them (both very excited to finally be able to sleep over at daddy’s again) and he was drunk. I obviously absolutely refused for him to take them as he drove to get them. He kicked off saying I was breaking the court order yada yada. I emailed court straight away (so I had a paper trail) and also spoke to them on the phone, I phoned social services and I had a free phone call with a solicitor who all agreed I had done the right thing to safe guard my children. The cafcass social worker who has previously dealt with our case phoned a few days later asking for it was going, I told her and she was so shocked by it all but agreed. I had done the right thing. Safe guarding a child surely trumps any court order.
I represented myself in court throughout the whole thing and I was just very honest and was treated really well. Please don’t send them to him. You need to protect them from that monster.

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