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Legal matters

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Toilets

7 replies

Tinysoxxx · 16/02/2024 20:55

Is it discrimination against disabled people and women to change single sex toilets to mix sexed toilets in public buildings and entertainment venues?

The reason my Dd was able to go to school is that she was ‘visible’ if she had a seizure. In her SEND educational plan it specifically said she should not be directed to the disabled toilet as it was not suitable for her needs. The girls toilets doors had gaps and were easy to access (climb over if she was collapsed) as you would be able to tell as you could see her on the floor. The ‘disorientation but feeling ill’ aura before a seizure meant she would not be able to pull a cord.

If the school had made the toilets mixed sex - with the full length doors that go with that - then she wouldn’t have been safe at school unless someone accompanied her into her toilet cubicle each time she felt ill. That would have required more resources than a mainstream state school had. As the single sex toilets were accessible for her, and she’s incredibly bright, she completed school with the highest grades.

Epilepsy affects 1 in 106 people. We had no warning that Dd was about to have her first ever seizure (as a teenager). It could have happened at school.

Then there’s all the other conditions. Strokes, heart attacks, hypos, brain haemorrhages, miscarriages. For example, actress Emilia Clarke felt ill during a gym session and went to the toilet as she was violently sick (as you do when you are ill). A woman in the next cubicle asked her if she was alright and then got her out and called an ambulance. I have no idea of the set up of the toilets she collapsed in. But if the actress had been on her own and then collapsed, she would have been visible to anyone entering the toilet block if the cubicles had door gaps at the bottom.

Gaps in toilet doors are such a simple thing that keep medically vulnerable people safe. I contacted a toilet manufacturer of some new swanky mixed sex (floor-to-ceiling-door) toilets in a theatre we were going to. They admitted there was no easy way to get into the toilets if someone was collapsed against the (inward opening)door. No one had asked them that before! They said there is a special tool to take away the panelling but admitted theatre staff wouldn’t know how to use it but there’s a half hour tutorial on YouTube I could access. No thanks.

Surely it is disability discrimination too, to change once safer toilet blocks into more dangerous non-visible cubicles?

This also applies to children in schools. In 2015/2016 in was noted that one pupil each school day was raped inside a British school (source: BBC report about a Parliamentary session). Safeguarding relies on visibility. Numerous studies have all concluded mix sex toilets are more dangerous for females. Surely having an increase in mixed sex cubicles in secondary schools is going to increase the risk? It appears schools have not thought this through.

From a legal point of view I was wondering what could be done? This is because I filled out a government toilet consultation (2023) but only as a private individual and I doubt my opinion will be noted. The drafters have obviously spent lots of time on this. But one of the appendices was talking about a fully enclosed universal toilet (full height door, no gaps) that was promoted as a preferred design for both mix sex and single sex toilets. They even said this would be good for disabled people (?!?). This would be a really bad idea if the door gaps were scrapped in laws. It’s a backwards step for everyone- anyone could collapse in a toilet. The drafters obviously have not had my life experience as the risks are glaringly obvious.

Risks to consider more likely to happen in private cubicles: drug taking, self-harm, sexual assaults, not being seen in the cubicle in the event you collapse, not being able to see out of the cubicle if there is a threat outside, not being able to see if anyone is in the locked cubicle in the event of a building evacuation.

What happens if the government decide that a ‘universal toilet’ design with a full height door is the way to go? Can it be looked at legally on the grounds of discrimination at this stage before it is ‘set in stone’? I don’t feel like taking on the government (too worn out!) but not sure how to get my views across.

Any thoughts from anyone in the legal profession? I didn’t imagine my cause would be toilet door gaps but I have the most important reason to champion this.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/02/2024 09:08

You might have more luck posting on the feminism board OP. The sex and gender discussion one. Not the Chat.

Vallmo47 · 17/02/2024 09:10

I’m glad you posted the above OP because I genuinely hadn’t given it much thought. Thank you.

TempleOfBloom · 17/02/2024 09:39

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/02/2024 09:08

You might have more luck posting on the feminism board OP. The sex and gender discussion one. Not the Chat.

It is also centrally relevant to the SEN / disability boards.

Tinysoxxx · 17/02/2024 12:23

Thank you for your comments. There was a thread in the sex and gender section that I posted to and about discrimination but actually is about keeping everyone safe by having toilet door gaps. The by-product of that is having single sex toilets.

I don’t see how changing a toilet design to one that is less safe is not discrimination. But I was hoping your legal minds could discuss it with me. For example, I would have thought there are health and safety at work and education laws that would cover it too.

OP posts:
HazeyjaneIII · 17/02/2024 12:33

I posted on the thread about mixed sex toilets last night about this very issue.
I have experience of working with someone who has seizures and the complex safety issues around using the toilet. Floor to ceiling heavy, only opening inwards make it incredibly difficult to manage when someone is at risk of a seizure or has complex needs and needs support with intimate care. It infuriates me that this is never raised in these discussions, and yet many extremely vulnerable people will be affected.

LIZS · 17/02/2024 13:00

Alternatively could they be permitted to use staff or visitor toilets.

Tinysoxxx · 17/02/2024 15:00

When I was a student out clubbing, I went to the ladies with my friends and we saw a blue hand sticking out of the door gap of a cubicle. We shimmied over the door and pulled her body towards the toilet to open the door from the inside. A young woman was unconscious and had choked on her own vomit. We cleared her mouth, waited for the paramedics and went back to the dance floor. She didn’t appear to have anyone with her (maybe a fresher?). It didn’t ‘register’ as a big deal until my own teenager had a seizure. The young woman in the nightclub could have been unconscious from drugs/alcohol/medical condition but the problem is not confined to people with known medical conditions. We would not have seen her and no one would have able to reach her in these new style mixed sex toilets that could be brought in as standard.

The closest I came to fainting in a toilet cubicle was when I had a miscarriage and it started whilst I was shopping (in Mothercare!) I woman passed me loads and loads on toilet roll through the door gap.

I expect there’s loads of stories like this. It is so short sighted to change the design of toilets but no one seems to listen.

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