Think DD's student landlord is applying illegal pressure

[demhalluk]

I hope there are some wonderful legal eagles on here that can help me, as I can't afford to get a solicitor involved. This isn't as much about the money we are likely to lose, but about the letting agency (IMHO) bullying these poor girls for what I believe is their mistake.

I'll TRY and describe the situation succinctly (I'm a wordy person, so apologies if I ramble).

Student property has six bedrooms. When DD moved in (July 2023), there were only 3 other tenants for a little while, and their tenant agreement, which we signed as guarantor on 19.12.22, stated their four names only. After a few weeks, another two girls joined them. For some reason, they were issued their own, separate tenancy agreement, with their guarantors, that just stated their two names, instead of a revised contract with all six students named, that I believe we should all have signed.

One of the two students who joined later changed her mind about starting uni and dropped out just before they moved in (July 2023). Her guarantor negotiated a proportion of the annual rent with the agency.

Since then, the letting agency harassed the remaining five tenants to pay the rent they're missing out on, via text and emails.

They have now got a sixth person to take the available room and a new tenancy agreement was sent around all the tenants and their guarantors on 08.01.24 to signify this (which we have signed). Up until this point, the two tenancy agreements (the one with DD and her 3 friends; and the other, with the 2 students who joined later) were the only ones in existence.

However, the agency is still demanding all five girls pay the missing rent for the period of 01.07.23 - 08.01.24. When we pointed out that we didn't see how we were liable for the tenant who dropped out, as she wasn't named on our DD's agreement, we were sent a 'contract' showing all six students, with our signatures dated 19.12.22. I know for a fact that we didn't sign two contracts that day, and I can clearly tell that they have cut and pasted our signatures and the date of that signature onto this contract.

Can they do this? Is that legal?

The letting agency told us that the girls verbally agreed to covering the rent for the outgoing tenant (my DD said they were put under pressure to say so, and threatened with the lot of them being turfed out).

Surely, that's not enough? If our legal responsibilities had changed as guarantors, to include two more girls from the four we originally signed to be liable for, isn't this a new legal agreement? Otherwise, they could just add the whole street on there!

They are now threatening to take the missing rent money from their deposit. I don't see how they can do this, as the deposit scheme (which the girls are signed up for) is not there for this, and more so if they're not liable for this missing rent in the first place.

Advice please, before I go in all guns blazing - it would be so much appreciated. My DD is autistic and worried that she's going to get in trouble, but I also don't believe she should give in when the letting agency has failed to do their due diligence and have us sign one contract with all six girls from the off.

(I realise that I failed to make the explanation concise).

We only have a docusign email from 19.12.22 and the one in January 2024. I do not have an email link to the 'forged' document with the six of them on - this was sent to us as an email attachment when we queried DD's liability with the agent.

You still haven't answered the key question, OP.

Are the original 4 paying more in total than was originally agreed, when the 4 of you signed the contract?

Gosh OP, I have nothing really to add but I’m just sorry you’re in this position. If you signed digitally, can you go back into your emails and find the link? It might take you to a copy of the original one that you signed. If you called it out as being fraudulent, surely they would have to prove that it was sent to you digitally which they won’t be able to do. Also did you just type your name or use a signature? Never has my signature looked the same on different documents, when I’ve signed digitally.

Sorry, yes. When they signed the contract, they just had their own share of the rent to meet. Since tenant F went, they've been told that they owe this amount and a fifth of her annual rent too.

It does, we've been back into that link a few times and it only brings up the agreement with the four names on, one of which is my DD.

Sorry to keep labouring that point:

To confirm (imaginary numbers):

Originally, they signed a contract for the use of 4 out of 6 bedrooms of a 6 bedroom house for a total of £400 per person (£1600 pcm total). Afterwards the other 2 bedrooms have been filled, again each paying £400pcm (so now totalling £2400pcm). The original contract was only for £1600 pcm, but the landlord is pursuing the tenants and their guarantors for an additional £400 relating to the 5th person who has dropped out?

Rather than the alternative scenario, which would be that the 4 girls signed up to rent a 6 bedroom house for £2400 a month (£600 each) and then 2 extra people were found bringing the cost down to £400?

Obviously the numbers will be wrong but trying to illustrate teh scenarios.

I'm pretty sure from what you've said it's the first option?

OK that's good in terms of you not having signed up for the current situation - your liability has been altered by the apparently forged document.

I agree with PPs suggesting the Uni accommodation office and also the Council's HMO team.

Was DD's original agreement an AST and not AST room only? I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't be legal to issue an AST for the whole house to 4 tenants and a separate agreement to another 2. These would not be valid contracts. You really need to go full legal with this so check if DD has any legal cover via insurance or any of those in the house. Check your insurance for cover - as guarantor it also affects you. If neither are an option join which as they have a legal helpline. If the agents are registered with any professional bodies put in a complaint with all the documentation. Personally I would go after the fact it wasn't a legal tenancy, there are penalties for landlords for that. I would also take all the girls out the equation and you and the other parents take the lead. Get all the tenants to send an email to the agents stating all communication from now on will be via the parents so they can no longer be bullied as they have been.

Are there any housing charities that offer legal advice in your area op? For example in Northern Ireland we have housing rights who would deal with the letting agent on behalf of the remaining tenants?

I'd ONLY communicate with the letting agency by email and make sure your dd does the same. I'd put it to them in writing a copy of the tenancy agreement that you signed and make it very clear that you view copying and pasting your signature as fraud. I'd make it clear that you're aware of your dds rights as a tenant and your rights as guarantor and if they continue to harass your dd you will be forced to seek legal action as they are breaching the tenancy agreement by harassing your dd as tenant. (This is usually worded on a tenancy agreement as no interference with the tenants right to live in and enjoy the tenancy peacefully). Harassment would also include any unannounced visits or visits that are carried out without the agreed notice period on the contract you signed.

They are in the wrong here op so I'd be inclined to suggest a cease and desist solicitors letter if you can afford one or if you can get legal aid through a housing charity?

This point is vital in understanding what you are liable for OP.

Yes, the first option.

I will take up those points, thank you.

Their contract states they're liable for the people in that agreement (4 on one, 2 on a separate one). The person who has left was stated on the second contract that had the two of them on there - she is not named on the one we signed.

I've kept all the emails, thankfully, and there weren't any for us to sign between December 2022 and Jan 2024.

It’s actually better that it’s on docusign OP as it should be easier to prove the fraud.

I would write a formal letter to the letting agents saying you are aware they have forged legal documents. I think they should have details on their website of how to make a formal complaint.

The evidence being that there was no such document signed. All docusign documents have a unique reference along the top - what does the new agreement have? You could contact docusign and ask for a copy of the one with the reference they are saying. I think you also get a docusign account so there should be a trail that no such document exists.

Make it clear that if the complaint is not dealt with you will be reporting to the property ombudsman/redress scheme. However, given the very serious nature you make have no choice but to do so anyway unless this can be satisfactorily resolved.

I would make it clear it relates to bullying and coercion. That you would like the claims to be formally dropped and for the girls to receive compensation for there details being forged along with a guarantee that they will receive a good reference given this is no fault of their own.

My only curiosity is what rent was on the lease with the 4 of them? Was it 4x the individual rent? As in that case I don’t understand how they can then let part the house to two others? Surely either the 4 girls are liable for the whole rent of the house (and then part of it wouldn’t have been paid if split 6 ways), or the agreement was for the 4 and 2 people shouldn’t have been added? Doesn’t stop the above anyway given the forged documents.

I can’t offer much legal advice, but just wanted to sympathise as they sound like absolute shits to deal with.

I think you have a strong case if your original tenancy had a figure of ‘£x jointly liable between 4’ and now they’re claiming ‘£y jointly by 6 (or 5 remaining’ when it’s not what was signed.

I would have thought firstly the student who dropped out, then their guarantor and also the student who signed the same contract, and their guarantor would be liable for rent missing until the new tenant arrived to fill in the gap. As 4 students including your DD have paid all rent due as per their legal contract you as guarantor for that contract should not be liable. When you signed the new contract in January to effectively guarantor all 6 students you should have insisted in clause stating from this point in time forward. Copying and pasting your signature is not legal. You could show the judge in a court of law the only 2 documents you signed. Could you contact other parents from the original 4 students and agree with them you will fight them in court together?

This is really interesting.

I don't think you are liable either but I'm not legally trained. I know verbal agreements can be binding but in this case where there is a written contract I don't think the 'verbal agreement' would hold any weight.

The agents will just be trying their luck. They will do whatever's easiest which is why they aren't going after the girl who dropped out.

If your daughter doesn't have legal cover with the Uninor with her contents insurance perhaps you have legal cover with your home insurance? Not sure they would cover it but they might. Or perhaps you have cover with a Which membership?

I'd be asking for proof that the lease with all six names is genuine as you know it's not!
Surely the new contract that your husband just signed can't be applied backwardly?

It could be that the agents aren't aware that the document has been forged - a lot of agents are shady and not well trained and it could be a rogue employee trying to cover their own back.

I wonder if you get the agency to back down you might find they recover the costs by stinging everyone for the whole of their deposits for 'damage' to the property. I hope the girls have lots of photos etc and have looked after the house.

It's easy to go to the small claims so even if you don't get anywhere for now make sure you keep all the evidence and take the agency to small claims (now called court claims)

You should also check if the agency is part of the TPO - the property Ombudsmen. They should be. They may also be part of a trade body, If so, then they may be worth contacting.

Finally, it might be worth seeing if you can contact the owner of the property. They may not be aware of how the agency is behaving. Not all landlords are evil despite the general Mumsnet view.

Thank you for that, I will look at getting a Docsign account as I think that could be of help.

The girls were each expected to pay 1/6 of the total monthly rent, and the house was originally meant to have all 6 rooms filled until girl F didn't end up coming to uni after all. They then said her sixth had to be met between the remaining five, but four of those five weren't on a contract with F, only E was. I've written verbatim further up what both agreements say in respect of this, and it refers to the liability being shared between those named on the agreement. By having two separate agreements during the term where F's rent wasn't forthcoming, only E was on her agreement. I therefore think A, B, C and D aren't liable for the missing rent.

That's absolutely what's happened!

I agree with everything you've said there. We're in the process of finding out that the other guarantors have done/said.

I've been doing some digging about the letting agent and they're a newish company with very little turnover and no employees. I genuinely think they don't know how serious it is to just cut and paste our signatures onto a new contract where we haven't given our authority for them to do so.

Sorry if it’s been said but if your dd is in the students union they will help advise. They will have an accommodation officer who is there to help including students in private rentals.

I was going to mention this. I was particularly interested where thry proved the forgery by showing it was exactly the same signature each time, rather than showing slight differences as separately signed signatures would be.

(Caveat to say this is not my area and I'm assuming the landlord is expecting you/your daughter to pay in excess of the amount she is liable for under the non-fraudulent tenancy agreement, as per other posters)

On the verbal agreement to pay, I'd expect the tenancy agreement to have a provision saying that it can only be varied/amended in writing. Even if it doesn't, contracts made where a party feels they have no option but to agree (i.e. as you have described the circumstances around the verbal agreement to pay the excess) are voidable for duress - seems exceedingly unlikely that this would ever be upheld, particularly given the power imbalance. For argument's sake, even if it was upheld, that only goes to the tenant's obligation to pay - it's well established that the guarantor needs to confirm that their guarantee still applies in respect of the increased obligations, so verbal agreement by your daughter is a non-starter as far as the landlord's claim against you is concerned.

Echo what others have said re. DocuSign - the signed document will have a unique code at the top of the page, as will the signature that has been applied. If you can log in to the account that you used, it should have the history of everything that you have signed - if the codes on the executed tenancy agreement on file match the fraudulent one, I'd treat that as fairly conclusive evidence - this is exactly what the unique codes are designed to prevent.

Keep all communication written (I like to send an email after a phone call confirming what has been discussed for this reason. My next steps would be to state the facts as you're able to distill them in relation to the DocuSign and see if that focuses their minds a bit..! Good luck.