Think DD's student landlord is applying illegal pressure

[demhalluk]

I hope there are some wonderful legal eagles on here that can help me, as I can't afford to get a solicitor involved. This isn't as much about the money we are likely to lose, but about the letting agency (IMHO) bullying these poor girls for what I believe is their mistake.

I'll TRY and describe the situation succinctly (I'm a wordy person, so apologies if I ramble).

Student property has six bedrooms. When DD moved in (July 2023), there were only 3 other tenants for a little while, and their tenant agreement, which we signed as guarantor on 19.12.22, stated their four names only. After a few weeks, another two girls joined them. For some reason, they were issued their own, separate tenancy agreement, with their guarantors, that just stated their two names, instead of a revised contract with all six students named, that I believe we should all have signed.

One of the two students who joined later changed her mind about starting uni and dropped out just before they moved in (July 2023). Her guarantor negotiated a proportion of the annual rent with the agency.

Since then, the letting agency harassed the remaining five tenants to pay the rent they're missing out on, via text and emails.

They have now got a sixth person to take the available room and a new tenancy agreement was sent around all the tenants and their guarantors on 08.01.24 to signify this (which we have signed). Up until this point, the two tenancy agreements (the one with DD and her 3 friends; and the other, with the 2 students who joined later) were the only ones in existence.

However, the agency is still demanding all five girls pay the missing rent for the period of 01.07.23 - 08.01.24. When we pointed out that we didn't see how we were liable for the tenant who dropped out, as she wasn't named on our DD's agreement, we were sent a 'contract' showing all six students, with our signatures dated 19.12.22. I know for a fact that we didn't sign two contracts that day, and I can clearly tell that they have cut and pasted our signatures and the date of that signature onto this contract.

Can they do this? Is that legal?

The letting agency told us that the girls verbally agreed to covering the rent for the outgoing tenant (my DD said they were put under pressure to say so, and threatened with the lot of them being turfed out).

Surely, that's not enough? If our legal responsibilities had changed as guarantors, to include two more girls from the four we originally signed to be liable for, isn't this a new legal agreement? Otherwise, they could just add the whole street on there!

They are now threatening to take the missing rent money from their deposit. I don't see how they can do this, as the deposit scheme (which the girls are signed up for) is not there for this, and more so if they're not liable for this missing rent in the first place.

Advice please, before I go in all guns blazing - it would be so much appreciated. My DD is autistic and worried that she's going to get in trouble, but I also don't believe she should give in when the letting agency has failed to do their due diligence and have us sign one contract with all six girls from the off.

(I realise that I failed to make the explanation concise).

I will, thank you for that.

Their tenancy agreement says they're liable for the rent 'if one of them fails to pay'. But the outgoing tenant was never named on their contract.

I do feel like that. They failed to issue a new agreement with the six of them on and have it signed by all six students and all six guarantors. When I asked for this magic document that doesn't exist, this is when I got the document with the six names (the two additional ones in a completely different font) with our signatures and date of signatures from the original document signed on Dec 22.

Show me the contract and exactly what it stated then we shall see.

However, I need to address this as you and another are questioning this.

From the link below - Thank you, - Indeed, OP do your own homework.

It is best to have a written contract; however, an oral contract is binding for both parties in law. Your agreement with your agent is what you are obliged to abide by. If there is contention between the parties, the court will determine the matter.

How To Best Terminate A Contract With A Letting Agent | 2023
https://thebla.co.uk/how-to-terminate-a-contract-with-a-letting-agent/#:~:text=It%20is%20best%20to%20have,court%20will%20determine%20the%20matter.

Try the uni SU Housing Officer for advice.

Digitally signed, and we had no knowledge of their agreement or conversation. I think the letting agents personally went to the property to get these 19 year old to agree to paying the difference.

Digitally signed via a service which tracks (ie. they won't have a leg to stand on) or via you using the insert signature thing into a PDF?

Have you checked the document history? They might have hung and dried themselves there.

You do need to check the contract though - are they, the 4 of them, liable for the rent on the whole house as a group? This happens a lot, and in which case it's irrelevant that they managed to rent out a couple more rooms, as even when they were empty at the beginning, the original 4 should have been paying.

If they're just liable for their individual rooms or for 4/6 of the rooms on the original contract, that's a bit different.

Still, I'd be going after them for the fraud rather than the rest of the dodginess - because that's well over the line

Digital signed via a service.

Speak to Shelter
Check with the HMO team at the council. I bet he hasn't got a HMO licence either!

What is the tenants liability under the tenancy.
Is your daughter responsible for her portion of the rent or 4/6 or the whole of rent 6/6.
Have you guaranteed to pay a portion, if so what? Just your daughters? Your daughters and her 3 friends or the entire rent for the property?

There was a piece on R4 recently with almost exactly this scenario...the agency forged documents...do you have the originals you signed? I think the R4 programme (You and Yours? Moneybox Live?) got a handwriting and digital expert to prove the signatures had been copied and pasted. The case was still being progressed, but I echo others advice of legal advice through your insurance and the university housing. Are the agents members of ARLA or any professional standards body? May be worth reporting them if so.

Good luck.

If you used docusign or hellosign or similar, you should have received an email when all signatures on the document were complete, which would presumably be dated well before Dec 2022?

Are you in contact with the family of the girl who dropped out? They may have an email confirming full and final settlement for 50% rent (or whatever they covered) which could help you.

Sorry, I mixed up dates - I mean that the docusign email would have come on 19/12 well before the other two girls were added

I’d be threatening legal action for the cutting and pasting of my signature. Imagine what else they could do if they think that’s acceptable.

As others said the Uni will likely have a department helping with accommodation issues, if not the student union will help & advise.

This is the key.

Is the situation: A,B,C & D agree to share the rent of (say) £1200 per month, so each is signed up for £300. E & F then move in, so each person's share of the rent goes down to £200. F changes her mind, so now the others are each paying £240.

Or did the rent start at £1200, go up to £1800 when E and F moved in, so now A,B,C,D are on the hook for £360 each (split 5 ways with E), when they should only be paying £300?

100% this.

When my sister lived in uni accommodation she had a similar situation and it was irrelevant what names were on the form really because the amount of cover was what had been agreed.

This is the wording on the agreement my DD has with the 3 other tenants:

"All tenants will be jointly and severally liable for the tenant's obligations contained within this agreement. In the event of non-payment of rent and/or another breach of the agreement, and individual tenant or group of tents may be pursued."

There was my DD (tenant A), and tenants B, C and D on her agreement. Tenant E and F were on a totally different agreement of their own (that is exactly the same agreement in terms of contractual wording). F never came, after signing their agreement, and now the agency is trying to get A, B. C, D and E to pay for F's missing rent for the period 01.07.23 - 01.01.24 (which equals around £3,276). They've already had some payment from F's guarantor (I have no idea how much) but they're saying that A, B, C, D and E owe about £1600 between them, and if they don't pay it, they'll keep back their £200 deposit and come after them for the remainder.

My whole argument is that A, B, C, and D's guarantors were not told that they were liable, they did not jointly sign a new agreement and they were not made aware that E and F were tenants they were liable for.

When I questioned this, I was sent a copy of an agreement that has E and F crudely added, with our original signatures from 19.12.22 cut and paste into it. And also told that A, B, C and D verbally agreed to cover the missing rent. However, none of the guarantors have been informed of this nor signed to accept it.

It looks to me that she is only liable for if any of the 4/6 on her agreement defaults.

That's my thought!

But are the original four paying more in total now than they were before the extra two moved in (or didn't, in F's case)? Because, if not, regardless of whether a new contract should have been issued, the LL is going to argue that your position has not materially changed from when you signed the original, and that you are still liable for the whole rent.

edit: deleted cos I misread the op

Fair point about the timings, but the point about expectations/liabilities at the time of signing still stands.

Have the OP and her DD's liabilities increased because of E and F being added? If not, their case is weaker than if adding E and F created a liability that was not there at the time the original contract being signed.

B has paid £100 towards the arrears, but otherwise, I don't think A, C or D have made any contribution (A hasn't, because I told her not to). They get regular emails from the agency asking for the money, and that was when they were told they wouldn't get their deposit back and they'd be chased afterwards for the remainder.

If I thought they owed the money that would be fine. In my head I don't see how they can be liable for a default in someone else contract. It's like saying the student three streets away has defaulted and the landlord's come knocking on their door for the missing money (you can tell I'm not a lawyer!).

Why has E not been asked for the missing rent when they were on the contract with F? I can't see in the terms that A, B, C and D are liable to anyone else's default than their own.

Even though the girls have verbally agreed to pay the missing rent, their guarantors haven't.

I'm just confused.

I don't think they are, no. She never started the term for them to get to know her.