A fence question - who is responsible? With diagram

[NigellaAwesome]

We bought a property a couple of years ago which we let out. My tenant contacted me recently to say the neighbour had been round to say that the fence between the 2 properties was swaying in the recent bad weather and that it needed to be repaired. I called round to the house today to look at it, and the fence is fully within the neighbour's property. The posts are definitely within their property line, with the panel further in, facing their side (diagram attached). There is one post that is loose, the other 2 are sound.

I called round to speak to the neighbours and I explained that the fence belonged fully to them as it was within their property and it was therefore their responsibility to maintain but I would be more than happy to facilitate access.

It is fair to say that they were a fairly excitable couple, and the wife was quite irate, saying that she would not be paying to fix it. They said that a number of years ago the previous owner of our house had replaced a post when it was loose. I said he may well have done out of goodwill, but as far as I was concerned the fence was fully on their property and therefore not my responsibility. I invited them round to our house so that they could see the posts are definitely on their property with the fence panels even further in again. Their house extends further back than ours, and we have a path running down the side, in line with the edge of their wall (hard to explain, but hopefully the diagram will explain).

I haven't had a chance to look at land registry, but I have looked on the garden law forum which talks about H marks and T marks, however surely that would only apply to fences that straddle the boundary?

Can anyone help me to understand this? If it is relevant, we are in NI.

We’re having almost the same issue right now. You need to get a copy of the relevant deeds via the land registry. If there is a dotted line with no T etc either way the boundary is shared. Posts being on the side of the owner is a myth - so the land registry told me when I rang yesterday.

You need to check your deeds.

Yep, don't take for granted, check the deeds.

NI should still be available online via the land registry for £3.

I thought everyone just went halves with their neighbours when it came to fences, as regardless of whose legal responsibility it is, the fence benefits you both and to go halves is the neighbourly thing to do

I wouldn't assume anything until the deeds have been checked, boundaries aren't always straight or logical! You can download them instantly for a small fee. It's worth getting your neighbours deeds too to cross reference.

Remember you are very unlikely to have to have a fence at all OP... so you could just stick up a piece of string between the remaining panels...not ideal but legal!

We have just had to pay out for a fence on another property, which was a party fence (checked with solicitor), but the neighbour just cba sorting it, so we paid for it to be fixed. It was £££ so we aren't really keen on funding everyone else's fence maintenance when we don't have to. I have to say I'm even less inclined to if it isn't my responsibility, as the people were really quite obnoxious.

I'd check if you actually need a fence after checking the land registry.
I went halves with ndn expecting a like for like replacement, what I got was huge slatted fence over 6ft and I got the ugly side.
Cost a fortune and irritated me every time I looked at it, I've moved now

I thought everyone just went halves with their neighbours when it came to fences

This is the common sense, peace of mind answer. Life’s too short to be arguing about stuff like this imo.

I don’t think it’s reasonable that you pay entirely for it- I probably wouldn’t. Another thing to remember is that there’s no actual legal requirement to maintain a fence in the first place- you’d be perfectly within your rights to say let the fence blow down and let’s not have one. Not sure how much use that is, it’s more the point about liabilities, or rather the fact those liabilities don’t really exist afaik., unless specifically stated somewhere…

Another often quoted one is, when standing looking at your own house, you own the fence to the right of your property, your neighbors own the left. I know a few that take that approach. But it’s not a legally defined thing as such.

Id personally not be footing the bill on my own for this example.

You have to check the LR. We thought we were responsible for our left fence and the neighbour the right was responsible for that fence as the left was straddling the boundary and the right was fully in the neighbours garden.

Turned out the people who previously owned our house were cheeky and put the right fence completely on the neighbours garden even though it was their/our one to maintain!

Another vote for checking land registry. But check both yours and your neighbours deeds. You will probably need to pay for the full set - £15? Not just the title deeds.
check the wording carefully, you may own upto the boundary but so long as there are markers you may not actually have to install a fence - you could just have two sticks and a bit of twine. All depends on those title deeds.

The overwhelming advice is to check with land registry so I'll do that - annoyingly there isn't public online access in NI - I will have to go to the land & property service office or will give my solicitor a call.

Perhaps not relevant but I'm pretty certain that the NDN (either current or previous people) installed the current fence as there is a shared alleyway to the rear of the houses - jointly owned by the 8 houses in the row. NDN has made a land grab and extended their garden over the jointly owned alleyway, and the fencing is all of the same type and vintage, so I think it was installed at the same time and isn't original to the house, which is 20 years old, if that makes sense?

From google:

This might surprise you, but you don't have to have fencing – there's no law that says you do. You're only legally obliged to put up fencing under certain conditions. The most common are if you live next to a railway, if you need to prevent livestock from leaving their fields and if your deeds require you to

My garden fence, somewhat wobbly, is held up by a couple of bits of wood after the current storms. If they’re that bothered by it, they can at least go halves. Or get a couple bits of wood

@Lonelycrab you would think that would you! To a certain extent I agree with you but some neighbours are vile.

We have a slum landlord next to us. 4 times he’s TOLD us to pay for 15 panels of fencing, plus posts plus disposal of the old fence. 4 times I’ve said no as the fence is his, we’ve even saved him the cost of looking at his own deeds as we’ve given him four copies all telling him it’s his responsibility plus the relevant section of our own deeds also saying it’s his responsibility and both sets say there has to be a fence. Absolutely no way am I paying one penny towards his fence.
Had he asked nicely to go halves I might have considered it, but now, not a chance.

@NigellaAwesome im not at all familiar with NI house purchases, but in England we get given a copy of the land registry via our solicitor when purchasing. Maybe you would have a copy in amongst your purchase paperwork?

Had he asked nicely to go halves I might have considered it, but now, not a chance

Too right! There aren’t many situations where you are impelled to provide fencing at 100% cost, from a legal pov. Show them the hand, because the face isn’t listening…. Easier said than done I know but some people just try it on.

@Lonelycrab aww thank you. Rough day and I was fully expecting to get a ‘be the bigger person’ from anyone. Thank you kind stranger for not roasting me!

@NigellaAwesome I think you said you rent this house out. You will have to consider your tenant and the quality of house you are providing.

I’ve wholly paid for fences that are not mine because neighbours refused to pay. But, I wanted my tenants to be happy. If neighbours think you are making money (and they will) they get arsy. They know you will have to repair the fence eventually. With one house, the neighbour complained about the new fence! They were responsible for it but didn’t answer the door or respond to my letter. So tough. Taller fence installed so my tenant got privacy! Happy on our side of the fence! Just not happy about the expense but at least it’s tax deductible!