Can they force contact for my 12yo?

[mediationforanidiot]

Long story short, Dd's dad left when she was under 1yo. He never signed the birth certificate and soon shacked up with another woman and marrying shortly after. I went via CMS. He took me to Court to try to stop me getting maintenance, to which the Judge laughed and told him he had to pay. As a result he went self-employed, paying appx £5pw as he suddenly went from over 55kpa to 9kpa.
So far, fairly typical.

So, I don't want to drip-feed but it is lengthy, so here goes:
When dd was about 3 her nursery asked if I could get in touch with him for contact as apparently she was talking about him and painting him pictures. My heart broke at this point and I decided to send an email seeing if he had changed his mind about contact. We had a seemingly productive few emails where he was interested in her and seemed to want to meet. As the date grew closer he suddenly sprung it on me that if I dropped CMS he would meet her. I said the whole "it's not a pay per view" etc and refused. However a few months later, after it had been playing on my mind, I decided that I could get by without £5pw and actually I'd never forgive myself if he turned around to her later and said that was what stopped him from seeing her. Ridiculous I know but at the time it seemed like a sensible way to show willing re contact. Of course, as soon as CMS was cancelled he disappeared. Zero contact and zero maintenance. I felt he had made his choice but emailed to say the ball was always in his court re contact as I felt in the future when he was more willing to be a parent he might regret his choice.

There's a huge amount more but I've just typed half of it out and it's like a dissertation and hopefully not all needed. So, skipping to the end:

He has decided he wants contact
Dd and I met him last year and for 4 months I tried to do things at weekends with him (I paid for these and drove etc, really bending over backwards)
His behaviour was erratic and unstable - he frequently had no money and at the last meeting went "missing" for hours returning drunk

He left un-prescribed drugs in my car the same weekend
At this point I decided that was enough and I wasn't going to continue to meet up with him with dd as I could see his behaviour was unsafe (4 weekends)
He began messaging essays me about how he was going to take her now because I wasn't being a good parent. I told him I was blocking him as he was being nasty and needed mental health support. At this point he was really only messaging me - it always felt it was about getting to me rather than helping her.
He then began messaging her saying I had kept her away from him for all of the years in her childhood.
He told her he was going to take over and help her with her future as he knew more influential people than me.
She became scared he was going to actually do the above. We had long chats about his state of mind and how he has no parental rights so that is not going to happen. I asked her if she wanted to block him and she said yes. We blocked him on her devices and I unblocked him to explain this was her choice and I was going with her wishes. In the future she would contact him when she was ready to continue their relationship. I've had him blocked since.
Just before Christmas he turned up at my dad's house uninvited in the dark. I have never given him my dad's address, so he must have found it on the electoral roll. My dad told him to go away and shut the door. He has a ring doorbell thankfully so everything is documented.
After this I emailed his ex wife, who confirmed that he has multiple severe mental health problems he refuses to get medication and mental health help for
She also told me he regularly takes drugs and is an alcoholic (all of this I have seen evidence of on the weekends and can attest - she is not trying to "stir")
She also confirmed his recent work has been far more erratic than he led me to believe due to the above issues and he has not held a job for more than 3 months in 9 years.

I have today had an email from mediators, saying that he has turned up requesting they contact me for mediation. I have responded summarising that he has drug and alcohol issues, no parental rights and DD does not wish to see him so, no, do not want to have mediation.

Now I am sitting here worrying that he is somehow going to drag me back to Court and turn my life upside down, like he tried to when she was a baby, demanding to see her. Can this happen? I heard a scary interview on R4 last week about the father who abused his daughters and was allowed to repeatedly have contact, although he had PR so I hope this is different. After hearing that show though, I am really worried that somehow this man will be able to wreak havoc on us. Please can someone tell me that is not the case?

Thank you all - that's the reassurance I needed!

The thing about PR is that you know he's her dad, you persued CMS which he acknowledged he's her dad, and she accepts he's her dad. I suspect that 'just because he's not on the birth certificate' means very little at this stage (and if she was much younger, a DNA test would certainly be requested).

What you have is a hormone-filled pre-teen with a shitty relationship with her dad and a man who is known to have serious MH issues which he neither acknowledges or is taking medication for.

It will take time, intent and a fuck-tonne of cash for him to persued contact through court, and even then nobody will be able to enforce it with a reluctant teenager.

She needs support to unpack this complex relationship - if I were you I'd invest in some decent counselling for her rather than legal bills.

Given how erratic he is the one thing that not having PR does mean is that he can't just take the child and prevent the OP taking her back. Which is a good safeguard.

He also can't just turn up at her school or demand she leave with him or even have information/reports from them. Nor can he get a passport for her or leave the country with her (legally) without the OP's permission.

Lack of PR sometimes is a good thing and sounds like it is in this case.

Also the face he's never bothered to get himself onto the birth certificate shows the court a lack of interest (my ex was very flummoxed when he was asked about that little detail when dragging me through the courts).

@BloodyAdultDC yes, I did get her counselling after all of this as it was distressing for both of us. She knows she can always ask me or her school for help - we have a great relationship and talk about everything. I'm sure at some point she will want to unpick it further and will support her with that as and when.

OP you sound like you are doing a great job helping your DD navigate this situation.

Courts will take child's wishes into account and she doesn't wish to have contact. You've demonstrated several times your willingness to facilitate contact and it's not been in the best interests of the child. So I don't think you need to worry overly.

Someone more expert may advise on whether you have to go down the mediation route but AFAIK he can apply for a court order (as you've refused mediation). You can self represent and you can show the evidence of the past few years and the wishes of your daughter. He has no job, pays no maintenance, does he even have a house? Even if he was awarded some contact, you can't force a tween/teen to go. I know on the other side a dad who just sat outside in a car for hours every weekend because his daughter refused to see.him, very sad. The point was you can't actually force her to go and see her dad even if a court says he can have contact.

Hmmm, you see the sitting outside every weekend for hours is what is scaring me from that post. I wouldn't put it past him to do that.

I did ask dad if he thought we should get a restraining order but it seemed a bit OTT. On the other hand, I don't want to be trapped in my home because he's taken up a post outside! He knows where we live as he initially tried to set up 2 bank accounts at my address (loans, of course!). I shredded the paperwork and told him that wasn't happening!

OP sorry to clarify in that situation the Dad had been awarded access and was turning up at the appointed time for the access. The dad in this case was employed and a decent bloke. The ex was estranged and the daughter had been turned against him. He was trying to demonstrate to the DD that he was committed and kept his promise to be there, even if she didn't want to see him. Terribly sad.
If your ex turns up unannounced and sits outside then yes restraining order! I'm just reassuring you that your DD can't be actually forced to see him even if court awards contact (which I doubt they'd do other than supervised)

OK, thanks for the clarity.

Yes I think if he shows up again I'll have to get a restraining order as we can't be much clearer!

So he can't take her back, and at 12 any decision around what contact your DD has with her Father has to come from her.

My advice would be to get some legal advice on whether you can stop him pestering you. You could also raise a safeguarding concern with your social services team about his behaviour towards your daughter. She then needs to change her numbers etc so he can't contact her that way. I would also speak to the Police about options. If there is a chance he will camp out that is harassament/stalking . Good luck.

I've also got a ring doorbell and always check anyone who comes and goes on a daily basis. I'd obviously keep any footage, as I have with the messages, to show he is not being friendly or acting in the interests of dd.

He has been blocked on both of our phones and emails for well over 6 months, so no direct contact at all. If he really wanted to I suppose he could write a letter.

The only issue with a restraining order is he didn't have a fixed abode (which is why he wanted to set up his banks with my address he said), so I don't think there would be any way of serving it on him.

I'm currently supporting a friend through family court. Her daughter is 13yrs and she last saw her dad in 2019 and courts have put an order in for written contact, stepping up to face to face. She is adamant that she wants no contact and the courts have not listened to her at all. I don't know why, I have a lot of experience of women going through Family Court and I always thought from 13yrs up the children would be listened to. We rang Rights of Women https://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/family-law/
And they confirmed that this wasn't the case and it was up to the judge until children are 16 yrs. I think you are in a safer position, but I would still recommend you ring Rights of Women. It can be hard to get through, but we just rang on repeat dial.
In another case the father used drugs and alcohol and failed a drugs test. It seems unlikely your daughters father will get far in court, but I think you have a lot of good reasons for no contact and this would be another thing to keep in mind. You/your barrister can request he takes substance tests. You can also request he has a psychological assessment - but this is really solicitor territory and again, I doubt he'll get that far. Taking out a restraining can be evidence of his problematic behaviour, if he does take you to court.

Ps you'll be able to ask them about non mol too, though I wonder if you would need their Civil law advice line?

What an awful situation to be in.
Forget contact, your daughter needs to be kept far far away from him and for him to have zero influence on her life. Even if that means no more money from him (do you want his filthy money anyway).
In any case, if she ever did end up in a situation where she is with him, far from you, make sure she has 50 pounds hidden in the back of her phone case and the number of a taxi firm.

@b0zza1 thank you so much for that, it sounds exactly what I need at the moment just to see where I stand with it all. She's only met him 4 times, so I really hope they'd recognise it's hardly a loving relationship going back years! Even in Court when he took us over maintenance he told the Judge that he had no intention of seeing her until she was 18. The Judge even tried to tell him to discuss it with his partner and recognise dd would want him to be part of his life and he refused.

I very much doubt he would pass a drugs/alcohol or MH check. I don't think he would turn up at all if he thought they might do one. What I don't want, however, is to be paying out for lawyers for years just to keep dd safe from him. Thanks for the advice and website. I will call them tomorrow

@Mariposistaaa haven't seen a penny from him for about 10 years and it wasn't exactly much then! If anything he owes me a few hundred for tickets, food and petrol! He has nothing and I'd not want it anyway.

a) Why do women on mumsnet always bend over backwards to enable contact with pathetic man children? You should have done zilch to enable it. If he wanted to see her then its up to him to make the effort to come and do so and to both drive and pay.
b) No, 12 is old enough to decide. My ex was refused all contact when my son was 8 because he was adamant he didn't want to.

Good for you. You don't need anything from that loser except your lovely child.
Definitely push for the restraining order if it's a possibility. He should not be bothering her grandparents neither (heck your poor dad!) Change your phone number and email (I know this is a faff) and make sure her school knows. If he knows where she goes to school, someone ought to be looking out for her if she is walking in and out alone (as teenagers do).
What a horrid situation to be in. You're doing very well sticking up for her and trying to minimise the trauma this selfish, messed up man is causing.

School is aware and very secure - CCTV etc. He has no parental contribution at all (doesn't know passwords etc) and doesn't even know which class she is in, probably wouldn't even remember which year and she is dropped directly onto the school grounds/picked up, so no wandering about for her!

It's literally in the thread title!!

A 12 year old as per the post title?

I just want to say I get it. I did the same when my daughter was 5 drawing him and writing I miss you. Teacher spoke to me and I begged him to be in her life. Worse after 5 months I took him back only to have him leave at her 10th bd over the other woman his mother lol. At 12 I dont think they will force it. Mine hasnt seen hers in 3 years and is 13.I just want to send you a hug and say that mom guilt is real. Wishing you and your dd the best.

Little update - got an email from the Court today with many attachments. Seems he is filing to have her live with him in the week (!)
Multiple big errors on the C100 form and it hasn't been signed off by a mediator - which it seemed was required? Anyhow a Court date has been set despite this.

I knew he was going to make this all about him. He doesn't care what she wants at all and makes that very clear in the statement. He hasn't got a solicitor (well he left the entire section blank) and I'm amazed they've put a date in given he seems to have only filled part of it in?

Blimey that sounds so odd of him. Hopefully with a court date you can put it all to bed and they can agree he is not suitable for contact !

Imo let it play out. Give a man enough rope.... Then it will be over once and for all.

Are you sure that email is really from the court?

I would assume that he sees her as a source of steady income, which it would seem he is greatly in need of. Child maintenance from you + child benefit as well.