Health and Welfare Lasting Power of Attorney

[HeroicMinute]

Has anyone had any experience of this? My dad is starting to get a little forgetful, he's 84. He's still sound of mind and is more than capable of making decisions.
Not sure this is relevant, but my mother still lives with him and basically abuses him; is aggressive, hides his things and generally makes his life unpleasant.
I would like to arrange for me and my brother to apply for the health & welfare LPA as we foresee a time when dad may be ill or hospitalised and it will be very difficult for us to find out what's going on if my mother is the only person medical staff are able to communicate with.

It would make sense to have two or three of us as H &W LPA, including my mother as excluding her would be a nightmare for dad.
I wondered if anyone had any experience of doing this?

I'm guessing my mother would need to be involved in the process, she would more than likely obstruct it.
Dad's GP is aware of the situation and would support DB & I in this.

Your dad can appoint you and your brother as attorneys and can add mum as a person to be informed, she cannot obstruct him applying for you to be granted poa, if she does then speak to his gp. Is the gp aware she us abusing him.

Thank you.
I'm pretty sure Dad wouldn't be happy not having her on the list of POA as she would escalate and he has no intention of leaving her. However, that's helpful as I think what we could do is have me, my mother as POA and DB as person to be informed.
Yes, GP Is aware, and on standby for if there is a time where dad needs to be regarded as a vulnerable person, which he isn't currently.

@HappyHamsters
I know you said she could not instruct, but as his next of kin, do you know if would she definitely need to be informed? Could we do it behind her back?

Typo: obstruct not instruct

You can have all three of you on the PoA.

However... In my experience, it doesn't mean that you'll be informed or consulted about anything. If your Mum tells them she has PoA, they won't ask further. Maybe if you made a huge fuss and insisted they might, but it's not automatic.

Also please be aware PoA takes 6 months to process once you have sent the forms off.

@FiveFoxes thank you!
Good to know. I predict that I will need to make a huge fuss as she will absolutely try to exclude me from everything.

I didn't realise it would take 6 months. We need to get moving. Thank you!

Next of kin has no legal meaning, its really just as a contact. When you apply there is a section that you have to tick, either decisions can be made jointly or severally by the attorneys so make sure its jointly then no one person can make a decision on their own. You only get one copy of the actual form once it's approved so decide who is safest with that, that's the stamped original that hospitals, banks, solicitors etc need. The other attorneys will only get a notification of registration which is not proof. We made sure the hospital, gp and carehome saw the stamped original. What decisions do you think may be needed, if he has strong views he can make an advance directive, look up how to apply for poa on the office of the public guardian site, you can also apply online. I would consider the financial one too.

The donor can choose whether or not they want anyone notified of the LPA being registered so if he chooses to, your father can appoint you and/or your brother as attorneys and not tell his wife. However he would be notified himself when registration occurs so if he's being abused/controlled and his post is intercepted he may choose to use a solicitor and have them notified or he could use your address for correspondence, perhaps?

I prepare them as part of my job. While I understand your difficulty, you should never allow someone who is abusive in anyway to act as an attorney. One of the sections of the LPA for health asks if you will give your attorneys the authority to make decisions about ‘life-sustaining treatment.’ Your mother should not have this authority. Whilst joint decisions may provide more protection in this case. It is not very practical if one person is away or indisposed for any reason. Remember that the LPA for health can only be used by the attorneys when the donor does not have capacity to make their own decisions.

Have a read OP

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

@HappyHamsters
Im not really sure, but there may come a time when if he is vulnerable and we do not want him to live at home with my mother, he could come and live with me. Further to that, we may need to think about additional care for him too. I hadn't considered the financial LPA as his will is up to date with a trusted solicitor designated as executor. However, this is a consideration as there may be some fairly significant costs associated with his care which we would need to be met by his estate if possible. That's a tougher one I think. We're a family that hates talking about money 😬
As far as any other medical decision making, my mother is from a nursing background and I would trust her to make decisions sensibly. She would not pass on information though as she will enjoy having control over it, so really the LPA would mostly be to ensure we were kept in the loop.

@JennyMule thank you! This is useful. I think we might just do it behind her back then; keep her as an LPA.
This also would make it possible for us to consider the financial one too.

@JennyMule I don't think she'd intercept his post, but it's definitely a consideration.

@Lovemybunnies thank you! I've lucked out on this thread! So I'm pretty sure that I trust my mother to make good decisions wrt his health. My main concern would be if he needed to come and live with me, that she would fight that vociferously. If this did happen, I feel like the word of the GP and my dbs would help get him to live with me rather than her. I just don't think he'd go for an arrangement like this without including her as an LPA.

Thank you@FarFarAwayB

To be honest, I think it sounds a little dodgy that you’re wanting to do this behind her back! It’s not you that has to make the application, it’s your father. Are you expecting him not to tell his wife, your mother, about applying? Regarding having the financial LPA, how would that work if your Dm were still alive? Are their finances completely separate? If they own their own house, is it as tenants in common or joint tenants?

@Soontobe60 my dad has to make the application. I'm trying to get the info so he can make all the decisions himself. (Yes, I would think it will be pretty easy for him not to tell her about it as she doesn't rent to speak to him, unless she's shrieking at him to fuck off or some such.) I was under the impression that she would be automatically informed of a document like this, but if not, then it would be possible to exclude her without her knowledge.

However, I'm pretty sure he would not want her to be excluded, and would choose to keep her, me and possibly DB as LPA. The reason to do it behind her back is because she is abusive and will obstruct any process like this. The reason to do it in the first place is that whilst I do actually trust her to make fairly sensible decisions about my dads healthcare, she can not be trusted to take care of him if he becomes vulnerable, and if he is hospitalised she will not pass on any information to me or other family members.

I've just spoken to dh about the financial LPA and we would not want to do that as it would be far too confrontational, and as you point out, hard to manage anyway.

Nothing dodgy happening at all, DB and I are just trying to protect my dad.

When I realised that my DM was unable to continue to care for my stepfather who had dementia, I contacted adult social services to express my concerns. They did a home visit and agreed with my concerns, then were able to implement a carers package for him.

@Soontobe60 thank you. Yes, their GP is on standby as the minute my dad is classed as vulnerable, then everything changes, and I guess this is exactly what will happen. He isn't vulnerable yet; still active and very mobile, getting increasingly forgetful.....

Poa ceases on death, its nothing to do with his will. If he does lose capacity f the time comes someone may need to arrange and authorise things like payments to carers or a carehome. If the time comes he becomes vulnerable then social services may help you, poa don't make medical decisions, the doctors should consult family and poa about care options and there is a section on the form where he can write about his wishes and treatment.